Clarifications on Flash Player for Mobile Browsers, the Flash Platform, and the Future of Flash
I have worked with Flash and been part of the Flash community for about 12 or 13 years (over 10 of those with Macromedia and Adobe). Over that time there have been a lot of ups and down, but I think that the past couple of days have been some of the most difficult of my career. I wanted to make a post which will hopefully clarify some of the news from the past couple of days, and provide some more context around what is going on.
First, and foremost, a couple of days ago Adobe announced the following:
- We are focusing work around the Flash Platform on:
- Mobile Applications created with Adobe AIR.
- Expressive content (particularly games and video) in the browser on the desktop via the Flash Player.
- We are further increasing the amount of resources (both money and engineer) toward HTML5 tools, solutions and browsers.
- We are no longer going to be actively developing the Flash Player for Mobile Browsers.
It is this last point which received the most attention, caused the most confusion, and essentially overshadowed all of the other information. Given the very public recent history of the Flash Player on devices this was understandable. However, it is clear that we did not do a good job of communicating why we are are making this shift in strategy. I know how frustrating this has been for the Flash community, and for that I want to apologize. Our goal was to be very clear about WHAT we were doing, but in doing so, we didn’t pay enough attention to explaining WHY we were doing it.
So, please bear with me as this may up being a long post, but I want to talk about the why, as well as discuss what we see as the role of Flash on the web (especially in relation to HTML5).
First, I want to make it very clear that we are continuing to work on Adobe AIR for mobile applications, and have seen an increasing number of successful applications created with Adobe AIR. What we are halting is further development on the Flash Player plugin for mobile browsers. We will continue to provide critical bug fixes and security updates for existing device configuration, as well as continue to distribute the current player. At the same time, we are further increasing our investment (both in resources and engineers) in HTML5. I am not going to go into too much detail on this today, but, in general, we are shifting some resources from the Flash Platform and towards HTML5.
The decision to stop development of the Flash Player plugin for mobile browsers was part of a larger strategic shift at Adobe, one which includes a greater shift in focus toward HTML5, as well as the Adobe Creative Cloud and the services that it provides. I am not going to go into detail on that today (I’ll save that for another post), but you can get in-depth information on Adobe’s strategy as a company by watching the Financial Analyst meeting (summary, videos) from a couple of days ago (it is long, but worth it).
Why did Adobe Decide to no longer develop the Flash Player for Mobile Browsers?
Considering how politically charged the issue has been, the decision to stop development of the Flash Player for Mobile Browsers was not an easy decision. However, at the end of the day, there were a number of items that made it clear that putting resources towards its continued development would not be the best use of resources.
The Flash Player was not going to achieve the same ubiquity on mobile as it has on the desktop
This one should be pretty apparent, but given the fragmentation of the mobile market, and the fact that one of the leading mobile platforms (Apple’s iOS) was not going to allow the Flash Player in the browser, the Flash Player was not on track to reach anywhere near the ubiquity of the Flash Player on desktops.
This effectively meant that if you wanted to use Flash to deliver a rich web experience in the browser on mobile devices you would have to provide both a Flash based, as well as HTML5 based solution. Given the strong support for HTML5 across modern mobile devices, it simply made more sense to create an HTML5 based solution. Now, there are some exceptions to this, especially around advanced video content, but it is very clear that HTML5 is the solution to turn to if you want to provide a richer browser based experience that works across browsers on mobile devices.
Just to be very clear on this. No matter what we did, the Flash Player was not going to be available on Apple’s iOS anytime in the foreseeable future.
Ubiquity of HTML5 on mobile browsers
Related to the point above, HTML5 has very strong support on modern mobile devices and tablets. Indeed, on mobile devices, it has a level of ubiquity similar to what the Flash Player has on the desktop. While performance and implementations haven’t always been great or consistent across devices, they have continued to improve at a pretty dramatic rate (just look at the insane Canvas performance increases between iOS 4 and 5).
This new generation of smart phones and tablets (ushered in by the original Apple iPhone) are only a couple of years old. Because of this, the rendering engines deployed on these devices (most WebKit based) were all also relatively new and modern. The end result is that when developing for mobile devices and tablets today, you don’t have to deal with legacy browsers as you do on the desktop.
On mobile devices HTML5 provides a similar level of ubiquity that the Flash Player provides on the desktop. It is the best technology for creating and deploying rich content to the browser across mobile platforms.
Our goal has always been to obtain the same level of ubiquity for the Flash Player on mobile browsers, but, at the end of the day, it is something that did not, and was not going to happen.
Differences in how users consume rich content on mobile devices compared to the desktop
On the desktop, users are used to consuming rich content (such as games and applications) via both the browser and native applications. However, on mobile devices users are much more likely to look exclusively toward applications for consuming rich content. The mobile platforms make it very easy to discover new content and applications by providing tight integration between the app stores (Apple App Store, Android Marketplace, etc..) and the mobile operating system. In general, users do not look to the web on mobile devices for finding and consuming rich content (such as games and applications).
There are a number of reasons for this, including:
- Differences in screen sizes, resolution and interaction models between mobile devices and desktop PCs
- Generally slower, and higher latency network connections (which is often metered) on mobile devices, which makes it cumbersome, sometimes expensive, and sometimes impossible to repeatedly load rich content from the web on demand.
- The tight integration with the underlying operating systems that native applications provide.
- The tight integration between mobile app stores and the mobile operating systems, which removes most of the friction for discovering new content.
When a user wants to play a game on a mobile device they turn to the app store for their platform. This makes it very easy for them to discover and install new content. This content can then be quickly accessed regardless of their network connectivity.
Essentially, users’ preferences to consume rich content on mobile devices via applications means that there is not as much need or demand for the Flash Player on mobile devices as there is on the desktop.
Scalability of developing plugins for mobile browsers
Developing the Flash Player for mobile browsers has proven to require much more resources than we anticipated. When building the player for desktop browsers, we can target well defined plugin APIs provided by the browsers. While we do have close relationships will all of the browser vendors (including Google, Apple, Firefox, Microsoft), as a general rule we can do most of our development using the existing APIs.
However, in the mobile ecosystem, we have to work very closely with other companies engineers on a number of levels:
- Mobile Operating System Vendors (such as Google and RIM)
- Hardware Device Manufacturers (such as Motorola and Samsung)
- Component Manufacturers (such as NVIDIA)
While we have good relationships on all levels of this ecosystem, having to do specific work for different combinations of OS, Hardware and event components has taken a significant amount of resources. For each new device, browser and operating system released, the resources required to develop, test and maintain the Flash Player also increases. This is something that we realized is simply not scalable or sustainable.
I have seen a couple of questions asking how Adobe AIR is different. There are a couple of differences which make AIR development significantly less resource intensive, including a more well defined API that we can target, as well as not needing to worry about differences in browsers or new browser versions. Ultimately though, developers are building successful applications with Adobe AIR, and thus it makes sense for us to continue to invest in it.
Shifting some Resources from Flash to HTML5
Finally, given the growth of HTML5 on both mobile and desktop browsers, we decided to more evenly balance our resources dedicate between Flash and HTML5.
Halting development on the Flash Player for mobile devices frees up resources for HTML5 development (tooling, frameworks, browsers).
I understand that not everyone may not agree with all of the conclusions drawn above. However, given these points, along with the increasing complexity and costs of developing the Flash Player for mobile browsers, we decided that further development was not the best use of our engineering resources.
What does this mean for the Flash Platform in General?
While there was some frustration around our dropping development of the Flash Player for mobile browsers, the main thing I saw was concern and confusion about how this would affect the Flash Platform as a whole. Were we still committed to it? Would we stop developing the Flash Player for the desktop? Is Flash really dead?
So, just to be very clear, contrary to what many have declared, Flash is not dead. It’s role and focus has shifted but we feel that it still fills important roles both on the web and mobile platforms.
Adobe AIR
We are continuing to develop Adobe AIR for both the desktop and mobile devices. Indeed, we have seen wide adoption of Adobe AIR for creating mobile applications and there have been a number of blockbuster mobile applications created using Adobe AIR. Some recent examples of applications created for mobile devices using Adobe AIR are Machinarium, Watch ESPN and my personal favorite, tweet hunt.
Flash Player for Desktop Browsers
We feel that Flash continues to play a vital role of enabling features and functionality on the web that are not otherwise possible. As such, we have a long term commitment to the Flash Player on desktops, and are actively working on the next Flash Player version.
Of course, with the growth and continued improved browser support of HTML5, the role of Flash will change. We feel that for the foreseeable future, Flash is particularly strong in delivering advanced video, as well as providing a robust, and graphically rich gaming platform. We are focusing our Flash Player efforts around these areas.
Some of the features currently being worked on for the Flash Player:
- Mouse Lock Support
- ActionScript Workers / Concurrency APIs
- Telemetry / Monocle Support
- Audio API improvements, especially for better handling of low latency audio
- New Datatypes for ActionScript 3
We are also making some long term, and significant architectural changes, which will benefit the Flash Player (and developers) for years to come. This is still in the early stages, and we will have more information in the coming months.
Adobe Flex
I know there are a lot of questions around Adobe Flex. We are writing a separate blog post focused just on Flex which should be up shortly. I will update this post when it is live.
Update : The Flex Team has posted more info here.
Flash Professional
I discussed the future of Flash Professional in a separate blog post yesterday, so I am not going go into detail on it here. As I stated yesterday, we are actively working on the next version of Flash Professional and have a long term commitment to it’s continued development.
HTML5 and Flash
Finally, I want to touch on some of my thoughts on Flash and HTML5.
From its beginning, Flash’s primary role has been to enable things on the web that were not otherwise possible. Over its history, this has included things such as animation, vector graphics, sound, video, webcam and microphone support, and more. Because of its ubiquity and fast rate of adoption, it was uniquely suited to quickly introduce new features to the web.
Overtime, many of these Flash features were added to the browser. Time and time again, as the browsers matured things which were once done exclusively in Flash, were eventually done in the browser. The Flash Player would then add new features and the cycle would continue. This has happened over the entire history of Flash, and I expect, will continue to happen. This was something that was good for users (who got richer content earlier), Adobe (who got to sell tools and technologies), and browser vendors (who could focus their efforts on features which the Flash Player had proven to be popular and viable).
The key point is this. If a Flash feature is successful, it will eventually be integrated into the browser, and developers and users will access it more and more via the browser and not Flash.
With the renewed competition in the browser market and the subsequent acceleration of new HTML5 features being added to browsers, the number of things possible in the browser has dramatically increased. This includes a lot of overlap with features that were once exclusive to the Flash Player. While it will still be a while before HTML5 / CSS3 features have the same ubiquity as the Flash Player currently has, the trend is very clear. A lot of the things that you have done via Flash in the past, will increasingly be done via HTML5 and CSS3 directly in the browser.
I think that is important enough that I should repeat it.
A lot of the things that you have done via Flash in the past, will increasingly be done via HTML5 and CSS3 directly in the browser.
I know that this is a bit scary for a lot of people who have made their career working with Flash. I completely get that. However, I think it is a HUGE opportunity for the Flash community. As browser support for richer content and motion graphics improves, so will demand for designers and developers who have experience working with motion graphics on the web. The Flash community has been doing this type of work on the web for over a decade and is uniquely qualified to fill demand for similar work in the browser. I don’t think it is a coincidence that some of the most cutting edge motion graphics work being done in HTML5 today is being done by developers and agencies with extensive experience in Flash (such as Grant Skinner, Branden Hall, Big Spaceship, etc…).
I am not suggesting that all Flash content should or will be done in HTML5. You have to look at each project on a case by case basis and make a decision based on development costs, target platforms and user experience. Regardless, your customers are going to ask about HTML5, and you should put yourself in a position to best meet their needs, regardless of technology or platform.
This has ended up much longer than I had expected, but I wanted to share a lot of stuff that has been going through my head over the past couple of days. Again, I understand the frustration about how all of this was originally communicated, and I want to apologize for that. I think it is pretty clear that we did not communicate the news and our views around Flash as clearly as we should have.
Please post and questions / comments below. Please keep all comments constructive and on topic (or else they may be moderated).
Mike:
Thank you for writing this (though I still think it’s very odd that top execs appear silent when so much of customer base is so disrupted).
To me, the biggest issue I still see in this mess is this: the battle for mobile AIR in the future (like the battle for mobile Flash in the past) turns on messaging and marketing support. It’s not just what Adobe says, or knows about its tools — it’s what’s reported, and what people think in response, that matters.
Is Adobe going to try to address this messaging debacle, so that the story told is more on point, and savvy to inevitable market responses? If so, how? If not, I have a hard time seeing how mobile AIR plays out as a notable success.
R. Blank
11 Nov 11 at 1:54 pm
Thanks for a nice post on the subject. You should have had a statement similar to this prepared from the start to make the news easier to understand an stomach.
I understand your points, but I’m still very displeased about the news. They might make sense from a pure business perspective in the short term. But by abandoning mobile, I still think the future for Flash looks ver bleak. Mobile will keep growing, and iOS is losing dominance. It becomes very hard to commit to the platform long term without support for Android if you are looking to maximize your reach without developing various versions for various platforms.
And while I can see the business case for HTML5, speaking purely as a developer, I like to enjoy my work, and working with HTML5 and JS is just not as nice as working with Flash. And I think it will be hard for Adobe to compete with the tooling. Obviously you will do what you can to bridge the workflow between designers and developers, but that will be a lot more difficult with HTML5 than Flash. Web standards are code-centric to start with, and Edge has been getting a lot of criticism for the horrible code it produces already. Flash made for a workflow that suited the kind of tools Adobe produces a lot better.
While maybe not so realistic, in my dreams Adobe will now open as much as possible of the Flash Player and get browsers to implement the Flash display list and AS3, so we don’t have to suffer with Canvas/JS.
Probably more realistic, and something I guess you are working on in secret right now, is to make so that AIR will no longer be a runtime, and instead compile directly to native code. That way it would be less bloated and slow compared to native apps, or tools like Unity or Haxe NME.
Leo
11 Nov 11 at 2:03 pm
Mike, thanks for the post. Change is hard but you have to adapt. I strongly feel if you execute correctly with Edge and a conversion option in Flash Professional/Flash Builder You will rake in cash. Many of us want tools that allow abstraction from having to learn a plethora of languages and instead focus on the functionality and experience we are coding for.
In the elearning industry alone I see a huge gain if the wallaby tech can handle all the AS3 code and output JS with good results. Also a way to help deal with the browser inconsistencies and multi format media dilemma, and svg animation will be a big selling point.
It’s great to see those links to AIR apps. I wish you guys kept a list on your site so we could reference when speaking with clients.
Ethan
11 Nov 11 at 2:18 pm
Another blog post and yet again not a word said about enterprise and business applications built in Flash/Flex.
Is there a future for us at all?
Hopefully the Flex post will give the thousands of enterprise application developers at least a speck of information to help us plan our careers and future projects…
William V
11 Nov 11 at 2:21 pm
@William V
–
Another blog post and yet again not a word said about enterprise and business applications built in Flash/Flex.
–
From the post:
-
I know there are a lot of questions around Adobe Flex. We are writing a separate blog post focused just on Flex which should be up shortly. I will update this post when it is live.
-
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 2:23 pm
Very good explaination. But Adobe did a very bad communication the last days and I have the fear that it is now to late because lots of normal people just understood that Flash now is going to die … so perhaps it will help if your CEO is going to clarify … but he really should ask experts of PR agencies how to do that and what to cummunicate …
Sven Ramuschkat
11 Nov 11 at 2:25 pm
Hi Mike,
No one talked about advertising banners flash is number 1 on this one so what’s will happen to this part can HTML5 replace flash on this one?
Thanks!
Hicham Taoufikallah
11 Nov 11 at 2:26 pm
Mobile is important, it will overtake pc.
Without mobile flash on browse capability, air mobile does not make sense either for me since I have to have a .js version. Before this week, I could optimize .as for high end mobile and port to air.
Now I will write .js and also deploy that same .js as an app.
Since I am not using flash on devices anymore, neither will I use it for desktop.
Flash used to be cross platform, no more, it committed suicide.
I looking at Wink.
Vic
11 Nov 11 at 2:26 pm
Outstanding post. Thank you.
Steve Walker
11 Nov 11 at 2:27 pm
I appreciate your post, can Kevin Lynch post something as well?
Mike Kollen
11 Nov 11 at 2:30 pm
@Mike Kollen
Is there any piece of information you would like from Kevin that I havent (or cannot provide to you)?
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 2:33 pm
@Hicham Taoufikallah
–
No one talked about advertising banners flash is number 1 on this one so what’s will happen to this part can HTML5 replace flash on this one?
–
I suspect that type of content will eventually move over to HTML5.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 2:34 pm
@Vic
–
Without mobile flash on browse capability, air mobile does not make sense either for me since I have to have a .js version. Before this week, I could optimize .as for high end mobile and port to air.
–
As I noted in my post, this was the case regardless, due to the lack of support for the Flash Player on iOS.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 2:36 pm
How would you compare Adobe’s long term commitment to AIR on devices vs PhoneGap? Do you plan to support both for the forseaable future, or do you plan to discontinue AIR for devices once PhoneGap matures?
anon
11 Nov 11 at 2:38 pm
@Sven Ramuschkat
–
Very good explaination. But Adobe did a very bad communication the last days
–
Definitely. I acknowledged that in the post.
–
so perhaps it will help if your CEO is going to clarify …
–
Yes, they have been, although they are focusing their efforts on the press and analyst community. I am working with them to get the message out to the Flash community.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 2:38 pm
Thank you Mike for a very good post. Better to have good communication come out late than never. Hopefully Adobe can mop up the mess that has been made of this over the coming days/weeks/months.
One thing to note: “The key point is this. If a Flash feature is successful, it will eventually be integrated into the browser, and developers and users will access it more and more via the browser and not Flash.” This is exactly how I have always felt about the place of Flash on the web. A driving force to improve the functionality of the web as a whole. And it is a great thing that many of the classic features of Flash are beginning to be doable in the browser – if not as easily.
BUT – without something like Flash in the mobile space, I see the possibility that the mobile web will stagnate. Sure – Flash on the desktop will continue to add new features and functionality, and those features and functionality will continue to get built into the browser as it becomes proven. But that cycle takes years -> are we not condemning the mobile web to living years behind the desktop?
If the users of tomorrow are going to be using the mobile web more and more then should we not be pouring our resources into making it the same as – if not better than – the desktop web?
Ross R
11 Nov 11 at 2:39 pm
@Leo
–
I understand your points, but I’m still very displeased about the news. They might make sense from a pure business perspective in the short term. But by abandoning mobile, I still think the future for Flash looks ver bleak. Mobile will keep growing, and iOS is losing dominance. It becomes very hard to commit to the platform long term without support for Android if you are looking to maximize your reach without developing various versions for various platforms.
–
Just to be clear, we are not abandoning mobile. We are not longer developing the Flash Player for mobile browsers (which was already not available on iOS). We are continuing development on Adobe AIR to allow developers to create and deploy applications across mobile platforms (which includes Android).
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 2:41 pm
@Ross R
–
If the users of tomorrow are going to be using the mobile web more and more then should we not be pouring our resources into making it the same as – if not better than – the desktop web?
–
As I noted in my post, on mobile devices users expect to interact with rich content via app stores. OS Vendors, who can monetize these apps stores, have an incentive to continue that trend.
Regardless, though, the simple fact remains that Flash is not, and was not likely to be available on one of the most popular mobile platforms (iOS) anytime in the foreseeable future.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 2:43 pm
Thanks for the clarification. Let me clarify my thoughts about this subject.
IMHO adobe MUST change the communication techniques with the community. Adobe MAX had been only one month before. These type of decisions must be shared with community. It doesn’t make sense to share the road map if you won’t follow that road. These “facts” haven’t changed in a month.
This leads a huge trust issue. Now adobe can’t wait the community to follow it’s road and trust them.
Another wrong tactique is Adobe shouldn’t insist Apple about Flash last year if Adobe doesn’t believe in Flash on mobile.
About the HTML5, I and all the actionscript developers around me, hate to hear (javascript + html 5 + css3 ) as an alternative technology. To simulate this hate just force an actionscript developer writing in actionscript 2.
I love actionscript 3 because i feel comfortable during development. It’s not the only language I now but it’s the most comfortable but this comfort doesn’t mean anything for me without trust to the company.
My last words are Adobe should invest on PR not HTML. Because if they keep on with these strategies, this kind of epic fails will be continued in HTML 5 also.
emrahozer
11 Nov 11 at 2:45 pm
[...] Update: Mike Chambers posted an explanation and clarification on where Adobe is headed with Flash and AIR. [...]
Adobe’s Flash/AIR Messaging Nightmare | unFocus Projects
11 Nov 11 at 2:47 pm
-edit-
Thanks for the clarification. Let me clarify my thoughts about this subject.
IMHO adobe MUST change the communication techniques with the community. Adobe MAX had been only one month before. These type of decisions must be shared with community. It doesn’t make sense to share the road map if you won’t follow that road. These “facts” haven’t changed in a month.
This leads a huge trust issue. Now adobe can’t wait the community to follow it’s road and trust them.
Another wrong tactique is Adobe shouldn’t insist Apple about Flash last year if Adobe doesn’t believe in Flash on mobile.
About the HTML5, I and all the actionscript developers around me, hate to hear (javascript + html 5 + css3 ) as an alternative technology. To simulate this hate just force an actionscript developer writing in actionscript 2.
I love actionscript 3 because i feel comfortable during development. It’s not the only language I know but it’s the most comfortable. Anyways this comfort doesn’t mean anything for me without trust to the company.
My last words are Adobe should invest on PR not HTML. Because if they keep on with these strategies, this kind of epic fails will be continued in HTML 5 also.
emrahozer
11 Nov 11 at 2:49 pm
[...] Adobe’s mobile Flash efforts have recently gone the way of the western black rhino, and Principal Product Manager Mike Chambers isn’t too pleased with how the Adobe chose to broke the news. In fact, he feels so strongly about it that he’s offered up his own clarifications on the matter. [...]
Why Mobile Flash Died: An Adobe Employee Speaks Out | TechCrunch
11 Nov 11 at 2:53 pm
@Mike – huge respect for you. Kevin Lynch is the CTO of Adobe and even an echo would be good. He is the most well known face, especially since he leads Adobe MAX keynotes.
Mike Kollen
11 Nov 11 at 2:55 pm
@mikechambers
I think you skipped my point entirely. What I was attempting to say was – regardless of the “most popular” mobile platforms – by limiting the mobile web to only features that have been tried and trued for years – the mobile web will never be able to be more than it is right now.
I think from a resources standpoint what Adobe is doing makes a great deal of sense. From a PR standpoint this was handled horribly – and the message going forward needs to be consistent. “We want to push the web forward by continuing to innovate and add new features” is a great message – but tacking on “*this message does not include the mobile web” is not. If you want to innovate and push the web forward – push the ENTIRE web forward. The mobile web has different constraints from the desktop web, but they are both the web.
Regardless – this move is going to be great for me personally, as it is finally forcing me to break out of my developer shell and move on to some different technologies.
Ross R
11 Nov 11 at 2:59 pm
Thanks for the post – looking forward to hearing what you have to say about Flex – just keep in mind that Flex/AS3 as a _framework_ is amazing and you should somehow separate it from the flash player like when you cross compiled to iOS – You (Adobe) as tool amazing tool makers, should enable me to write expressively in Flex/AS3 and generate HTML5/CSS3/JS as in the likes of GWT.
Mansour Raad
11 Nov 11 at 3:07 pm
@emrahoze – Alot has happened since last year.
* Android tablets have failed, iPad is utterly dominant. That sortof changes everything in an increasingly tablet
centric world.
* Microsoft announced it also would not support Flash on Tablet either.
Two big nails in the coffin. Both Apple and OSX say no.
I will say though, while I can’t argue with the short term logic here, it’s just that, short term thinking.
In 2-3 years we will likely have tablets faster than most of today’s computers. Tablet’s will be nothing more than PC’s with touch screen’s, something Flash would be beautifully suited to…
Also, it’s not likely that in 3 years Apple is as important as it is today. Android 4.0 looks very nice, Amazon Fire looks poised to be the poor man’s tablet, Metro looks good, things will change eventually, they must.
The reason all mobile sites we’re seeing today are super simple HTML5 experiences now is simple. It’s early days. Devices are relatively slow, and tablet’s have not yet explosed. As devices increase in power, and tablet’s grow in popularity, websites will start to look for much much stronger mobile experiences in the browser.
So, I don’t hate it, I can see logically exactly why you’re doing it, but I still can’t shake the feeling this is too reactionary, a mistake in the long term vision.
Thanks for fighting the good fight, have a great weekend and remember to keep it all in perspective. Cheers,
shawn
11 Nov 11 at 3:13 pm
I’m feeling the same that “JAVA developers” felt when FlashPlatform start growing as the new Web Platform. The first symptom no more Mobil support… adobe you are trying to fight with “Apps Devevelopment companies” greater than him … “SUN/Oracle Java” “Microsoft .Net” “Apple OC” “Google” ? now you are death in Development tools. This a big chance to take Adobe off the game.
Peter
11 Nov 11 at 3:28 pm
Surprisingly defeatist. So many things are still far from possible in HTML5. I was trying to use the FileReader api which is only available in Android 3, Chrome and Firefox. IE10 will support it.
I saw one flash dev trying to help his CV by attempting to convince a manager to let him build an HTML5 desktop browser app which would fall back to Flash if HTML5 is not available!
Many web apps are just not doable in HTML5, and obviously will never work in older browsers. HTML5 is turning back the clock to a simpler web, but in areas like marketing, Flash is an essential tool to create interesting apps, especially for Facebook. The only ‘HTML5′ that i’ve seen which comes close to Flash is some Web GL examples, but those are only usable by a small percentage of people.
Adobe makes tools rather than dictates the web in the way Apple did, and if Flash software is not selling enough to pay for mobile support then that’s the end of it. Flash Professional is only useful for designers who don’t need the latest version and Flash Develop/FDT are free.
Maybe it doesn’t matter now. If Adobe stopped releasing new versions of Flash, then it would still be used for many years. The 3d improvements for games and advertising will have the same effect as video used to in keeping Flash installed on most browsers
Ade
11 Nov 11 at 3:32 pm
I don’t agree with this move. It’s sort of like Adobe is missing the point of why Flash for Mobile was such a big deal in the first place.
Me, for example: I own both a Gingerbread phone and a Honeycomb tablet. I appreciate Flash support because there are times when I want the full, non-gimped desktop version of a website. This is especially true when I’m on the tablet.
And, honestly, who cares about Flash achieving mobile ubiquity? If Apple doesn’t want to support Flash, then guess what? They’ll continue to put out devices that don’t offer the full web experience.
Big mistake if Adobe sticks to this decision.
Shawn Farner
11 Nov 11 at 3:35 pm
I wouldn’t like to be in your shoes Mike. It’s really hard to defend such a change in Adobe’s strategy for Flash Mobile. My perception as a 13 years Flash developer is like a stab in the back.
Proposing to a client a content that cannot be viewable on a mobile browser – (and don’t forget tablets – a growing market) is mission impossible. It could still be defended as android represents half of the market share, but with this announcement, it’s just hopeless. Do you think that most of our clients have enough money to afford 2 developments, one in AIR and one in the browser ? With the constraint that AIR is extra runtime to install.
Who is going to need Flash authoring tool if no clients wants Flash content anymore?
Time will tell if this move is clever. Hopefully, I’m wrong.
Patrick
11 Nov 11 at 3:36 pm
Mike,
your post sounds to me reasonably from both technology and business perspective but misses the point completely. In my opinion, and I guess it’s not only mine, Adobe’s PR make us (professionals working with Flash) look like idiots in front of our clients, investors, media. In fact, we are forced to shift towards HTML(5) before this technology is ready, just to gain some credibility in eyes of business partners who don’t read blogs like yours. And if Flash dies, it won’t be caused by lac of mobile plugin but basic communication skills.
cheers,
Lukasz
Lukasz
11 Nov 11 at 3:43 pm
“No matter what we did, the Flash Player was not going to be available on Apple’s iOS anytime in the foreseeable future.”
Completely disagree.
When you say ‘no matter what we did’ you must be excluding the possibility of fixing Flash to use less power and cause less (far less) system instability, and not be proprietary (with updates every bloody week). Had this been done, perhaps in 2008, or 2009, it may well have been included in iOS.
Ending mobile Flash is Adobe finally admitting something that Apple realized half a decade ago at the dawn of iOS. The failure of Flash on mobile is completely Adobe’s fault, but the flip side is that this has forced Adobe to move forward and get serious about technologies that will work in a low-power mobile future.
Jeff
11 Nov 11 at 3:47 pm
I think the overall sentiment within the community from the recent Adobe announcements has caused people to question the validity of Flash as a platform across both mobile and the web. I see major news sites eluding to the recent news as Flash being dead, when it’s only Flash on mobile that’s halting. It doesn’t help when cnn.com misconstrues the news on Flash, and readers misinterprets the Flash platform as a whole.
Flash over the years, has definitely not received enough kudos for what it has shown is capable in the web browser. HTML5 has alot to prove…period. Non-educated people will automatically think that HTML5 can mimic everything that can be done with Flash. As a Flex/Flash developer, I do feel that I’m at a crossroad, and alot of it hinges upon the decisions made at Adobe. But I do realize it also is impacted by what the market wants. Looming questions for me are will Adobe allow developers to write MXML/ActionScript code that can be converted to HTML5 applications?
Personally, I think Adobe’s decision to refocus it’s Flash and HTML5 strategy is a good move. It has to adapt to this technological change to survive. I do see Adobe leading content creation for HTML5 based applications, as it has with Flex/Flash builder for Flash applications. In a way, HTML5 is giving Flash competition, which forces Adobe to make Flash better.
Cliff Fong
11 Nov 11 at 3:47 pm
Thanks Mike – this was a useful clarification and vastly superior in every way to the previous announcement.
I have a few points I would love to see addressed:
1) Why does Adobe think such a sharp distinction should be drawn between desktop and tablet devices, and why do you think this distinction will continue into the future? I can see a useful distinction between desktop and mobile phones, but tablets (and the user expectations for web-based interactive content) are much closer kin to laptops than smartphones. I can only assume it’s the battery issue; assuming memory and processor power of tablet devices will continue to improve, those factors for poor Flash performance will increasingly become irrelevant.
2) I can see where Adobe has been: a world where Flash was available on 99% of desktop browsers and rich content was interwoven with HTML. I can see where you think the future is headed: HTML5/CSS3/JS pages for the “build once” crowd who needs fairly standard-friendly levels of interactive content + AIR-based apps for those who need high levels of tightly controlled interactivity or “advanced” functionality. What I can’t see is the path from here to there you’re offering for the content creation community or for the consumers of that content. It seems shortsighted to say “just rebuild it” without offering a tool set that can be used to easily rebuild (or even better, convert) all that “old” content. So what can you say about the conversion path Adobe envisions from those who have produced SWFs to those who will need to produce HTML5/CSS3/JS? Today, Adobe tools can’t help with this for all but the most primitive interactions as seen in the Edge demos. What’s the conversion path for those producers of content that made use of the animation and programming power of Flash?
3) I haven’t seen much in the way of a direction for the eLearning community which relies on Flash to produce low- to moderate-level interactive content to help students. Let me give you an example. My sister-in-law and her children does her schooling at the Ohio Virtual Academy, which uses content created by K12 Inc. Nearly all of the most interactive content is in Flash – you can see some examples here http://www.k12.com/take-a-peek/sample-activities/ and here http://www.k12.com/take-a-peek/sample-lessons-high-school These aren’t videos or games or full applications, nor are they simple ads – they are somewhere in the middle, and in a sweet spot that Flash uniquely satisfies. They weave together simple HTML and interactive elements in a way that much content for online learning does. My sister-in-law doesn’t care if she’s on a desktop or her iPad or my Xoom – she just wants to access lessons and help her children learn. With the focus on gaming and video, where does Adobe stand on creating tools for eLearning content?
Marco
11 Nov 11 at 4:02 pm
Up until a couple days ago, a developer could count on making stuff using ActionScript and seeing it run viably on every major digital content platform. Now that’s not true for the platform with the most growth potential, the mobile browser.
Now Adobe is saying, hey sometimes write in HTML5, sometimes Flash. For most of us, it’s hard enough to master one of these technologies let alone both. Why can’t you just pick a direction? You could say it’s an HTML5 world, we’re all in and here’s how we will help migrate your time and money investments towards that end. Or, it’s an ActionScript world and we will make sure that your time and money investments will continue to enable you to build the best native and browser based apps.
Your attempts to clarify this are appreciated but it appears from here that ActionScript has a pretty bleak future.
Edwin
11 Nov 11 at 4:04 pm
[...] has said similar things in fewer words on his blog Update 2: Thibault Imbert chimes in. Update 3: Mike Chambers rolls the narrative. Now back back to making [...]
Flash and AIR, Nothing But Opportunity | unFocus Projects
11 Nov 11 at 4:10 pm
Thanks for the post, Mike.
What doesn’t seem to be understood by Adobe – People do not care what Adobe *thinks*. Adobe can think they can send people to Jupiter in a year. What matters what the crowd thinks and (most of) the crowd thinks Flash is dead. If we are not going to be paid for the job, we won’t do it and we won’t work with Flash. We won’t buy the tools. The decision makers do not want to have several versions of the same things, they are always going for the cheapest viable solution and most of the times they have very limited knowledge about the technologies – so are easier influenced by the crowd. Why would they choose Flash if they can have the “same” thing in HTML5? Adobe seems to forget most Flash devs are webdevelopers, not game developers. Adobe presented this in the WORST way possible. I do not understand how such a company can have such a bad PR, it is just ridiculous.
Also what Adobe fails to mention – why would anybody want to use Air for mobile apps? I know it is using AS and is piece of cake for a flashdev. But let’s assume I am a newcomer and I want to develop some cool stuff for mobile. I would definitely not choose Air:
1. I need expensive tools for it
2. It depends on a bloated runtime which users have to download = I will get a lot of low ratings for this
3. The performance will never be like of a native app (Adobe had years to do something about it, it is going very slowly…)
How exactly does Adobe want to market this? Also, all the suits are several hundred – thousand $, yet we have to make crazy steps to be able to work with the latest APIs. Is it such a big deal to provide a playerglobal.swc? I don’t understand this.
Poco
11 Nov 11 at 4:11 pm
It is a very confusing time at this moment with all the stuff going on. In reading your / this post the emotional part of me is even more confused when reading “shifting part of our resources from Flash to HTML5″.
It is as if Flash is slowly moved to the side.
Another part of me has a different vision on this. Ant that is that the HTML5 movement is actually going to be very interesting on the long run for both Flash and HTML(5) and developers of interactive / creative content.
Where we might see a small drop back in interest for Flash now: moving towards “can you do that in HTML5 instead?” I believe on the long run this will benefit Flash and Flash development, as we might see new demand for interactive eye-candy from places we “lost”
to HTML years ago.
Starling and the new 3D via GPU are awesome new additions, unleashing the raw power of the GPU for stuff in Flash that would have crippled any machine until now.
I see the future bright as long as Flash keeps up and ahead of developments.
peter kaptein
11 Nov 11 at 4:16 pm
Some people say Adobe didn’t make a good job with these news, I wish all big software companies were so open with their intentions. Big props to Adobe for this.
I’m one of those who asked how AIR is different, even if details are not given, this post made me realize the reason.
Although I have used it just a few times, I’d love to hear about Flash Catalyst (I guess this is something that future Flex post is gonna make clear). It has a big potential, and can get a lot of improvement, eg: in the vein of this subject, it could support mobile projects.
Héctor
11 Nov 11 at 4:26 pm
I dont know what the big deal here is. The bottom line is that Adobe is going to make it so that Flash Developers can leverage their existing AS3 skills to deploy to HTML5/JS.
If you can take entire projects and convert this to HTML5/JS then we all win and Adobe wins.
It’s a huge development task and we all know that. So I say Kudos to adobe for doing this.
Ive been developing with HTML/Ajax/JSF/Flash/Flex for over 10 years and I say that Adobe is doing the right thing.
- Austin
Austin
11 Nov 11 at 4:27 pm
Honestly, I think this is a great move. For a while I’ve been thinking about how people use mobile web browsing for information purposes – and stick to buying apps for their entertainment/engaging/interactive stuff. So for me, I love that I can create a cool flash game for the desktop browser and tell people who like it to check it out in the app store for their mobile device.
We’ve built one game for the iPhone store (Monster Blast) using the iPhone packager. Once it was finished it took less than 2 hours to modify it and publish for the Android store. So for me personally I love that more attention is being put towards AIR on mobile rather than the flash player for mobile browsers. GG Adobe.
Mark Hemingway
11 Nov 11 at 4:31 pm
either way. This is the dumbest thing ive seen in a while. betting so much on “app stores”.. how long do you really think they will remain the primary source of applications? People are already getting grumpy that they are being confined to the one delivery platform. Andriod is quickly gaining and taking market share from the infamous iPhone. Andriod users tend to be more intelligent, not quite so complacent in the sence that they dont exactly want to be bound to the manufacturer of thier phone. The appreciate and enjoy the power and freedom andriod brings them. And now adobe has put the kabosh on one of those key aspects of freedom. Mark my words. they will find themselves shifting back to flash mobile developemnent but when they do they will have so much catching up to do and the “flash” name will be soo beat up because it wont belong before flash player 10 wont work anymore on the latest mobile android verion as people update thier phones. Adobe just put the nail in thier own coffin. And frankly they will find that flash pro will suffer next. So they will be pulling the plug on that as well and they dont even know it yet. I give it 5 years tops. And the adobe giant will have relinquished itself to the corner offerning not much more than they used to offer way back when. will I turn to adobe for an html5 editor or sourcecode generator of sorts. No I wont. thats silly…. And as for desktop publishing and image editing, well there are far too many inexpensive options out there. Adobe is on a suicide mission spearheaded by some not so smart marketing execs. So much for the open screen project.
Razz
11 Nov 11 at 4:35 pm
Total mistake made by Adobe, and tell me what actually today is the “mobile device” ? What if I will have Tegra4 powered device with 7 ich screen and detachable keyboard ( kind of Asus Transformer) with performance comparable to my PC ? Is it a netbook, tablet, smartphone ? What if I plug this device to 24ich screen and standard keyboard at office ? Doesn’t it look like a PC ? As a user I don’t care. I want to have best device with best experience but I can’t because someone call it “mobile” ? Why Adobe just doesn’t compile Flash Player PC version to ARM architecture without any mobile oriented optimization and say “If you want, please wait for 2012/13 mobile devices and then we will provide you with even better experience because of Stage3d etc. and you will have chosen between still immatured HTML5 and powerful FlashPlayer 12″. I have already two mobile-oriented webapp projects developed in the same time: first – html5, second – Flex 4.5 based, both with the same budget. What I can see till now is fact that html5 project can’t meet requirement because Media Capture API and File System API are among others just another Sci-Fi episode. You said “Generally slower, and higher latency network connections” ? We are using 4G 100mb/s phones so what do you mean by slower ? Mobile app are better ? Try to manage apps within company with few thousands devices changed few times a year.. From business solutions perspective Adobe without FlashPlayer on mobile devs doesn’t exsist at all. I guess the right time for this move will be around 2016. But today this move may be a nice gift for Oracle and JavaFx which one I’m going to use at next project. The worst thing is fact that we will have to port whole flex lib to java code to keep consistency across dev teams.. or maybe 750 Adobe fired workforces would do it on Oracle bandwagon before us. Would it be Sun->Adobe->Oracle scenerio for Adobe’s disappointed top-level developers ? What do You think ? Regards, Flex-driven Tom.
Tom
11 Nov 11 at 4:36 pm
Mike,
Thanks for the post. Can you comment how Adobe’s plan to “further invest in HTML5″ will reach to mobile clients that need to communicate with FMS?
In other words, does Adobe plan to make FMS client libraries in HTML5? Or does Adobe plan to opensource the RTMP playback code to enable hardware manufacturers to add native support to decode RTMP streams?
Thanks,
Bruce
Bruce Hopkins
11 Nov 11 at 4:39 pm
Whatever the rationale… the bigger problem is you keep putting out Flash SDK’s and then killing them right after your developer community puts a lot of effort in to deploying them. You killed off the Flash 6-7 SDK in favor of FlashLite. You killed off FlashLite 3 in favor of Mobile Client. You restarted FlashLite and killed off MobileClient. You put out the Flash 10 browser as an SDK and now you’ve killed it too. It doesn’t matter than you will support it with bug fixes. As soon as you put out a new Flash version on the desktop the current mobile Flash player will start to become useless. So saying you will support it is pointless since you won’t keep it up to date, which has been your failyre for the LAST TEN YEARS of Flash SDK’s.
You have a credibility problem now no matter what you do, no one can trust you to not kill it and do something else in a year or two.
The central issue here is Adobe and Macromedia have completely failed to set a coherent strategic direction and apply the resources to make it succeed. You should have NEVER forked FlashLite back around 2002. You got a bunch of short term wins but you set Flash up to be a strategic failure. There should have been only one Flash player version ever and you should have made the comprises necessary to make it work on both desktop, mobile and SDK and keep them all on the same version. You should have constrained the desktop to only things that could be made to work on mobile, and you should have been focused on optimizing the player to make it work on mobile for most of the last 10 years, instead of squandering some unknown number of man years working on one failed fork after another, especially FlashLite.
Steve Jobs might have considered putting Flash on the iPhone if your SDK roadmap hadn’t been a complete train wreck, and if you’d been focused for the last 10 years on making one really great player instead of a bunch of failed ones.
Ed M
11 Nov 11 at 4:39 pm
I’m sorry for my english, I’m a spanish speaker, but I hope make me undestand XD. In my ideal world, I’d like to still developing using Flash & AS3 and at the publishing options a new output format avaliable appear called: HTML5. But what I’d like is that this functionallity translates the AS3 code to JS code and the application could have the same functionallity but in HTML5 ^^. Because exporting to HTML5 without AS3 to JS convertion it’s too weak and almost useless. Flash Professional and Flash Builder are an excellent authoring tools.
I know that my idea implies that adobe build a JavaScript Code base that fulfill the most functionallity that flash player offers. It’s simillar to the publishing process to iOS. But instead of translate flash player code to an a binary code, in this case the conversion wolud be from AS3 to JavaScript, with the understandable limitations.
In this way all benefits of flash platform could reach to every device on the world (including iOS browsing) an everyone happy and, with respect, Steve Jobs rolling over in his grave XD
Thank you ! !
Oskitar
11 Nov 11 at 4:40 pm
Just a quick question:
I make casual flash games. I should start with HTML5, right?
Maras
11 Nov 11 at 4:41 pm
(Bangs head on wall)
I’m amazed that even with Mike’s eloquent clarification, people still think Adobe is abandoning Flash for Mobile. They are not.
They are simply replacing it with AIR, which is more robust and better supported. As for banner ads and simple in-web applications, I would not be surprised if there is a Flash-to-HTML5 converter in the works in some dark corner of Adobe Labs…
Pete
11 Nov 11 at 4:41 pm
So its a financial issue?
Why they just don’t sell Flash for someone who believes in it?
Elie
11 Nov 11 at 4:44 pm
i am young an intusiastic,,just learned to code and found out as3 is what i wanted to do in the future….and all i read here is flash is dead , flash is dead, flash is dead… i mean what is with games? i really have the feeling like the world forced together to kill flash…on the other hand…you can do games and 3D content with webGL-Javascript-canvas…also.. for sure not so easy and smooth like in flash but much more performant..when not now mybe in 1 or two years..that´s my opinion…. so guys like remy sharp and paul irish will and already driving these technologies as far as they can…… ..also i think when i want to do an app on IOS …the best way i think is objective-c right…so am i really comptetive with flash apps ..i dont have the feeling….and why should i do flash apps on android..when JAVA is the technologie most apps are written……and in the browser….i mean in chrome also if its just a test for developers…the browser can handle c++so please tell me..why should i concentrate on flash ..even if i like to?
JACK
11 Nov 11 at 4:50 pm
Well, I thought that I was abnormal to think again about my whole carrier. But hey I am not alone, there are thousands of people who have been disgusted by Adobe these days.
As someone said, they should have announced that during the Adobe Max and let the words spread out with clear explanation.
That’s anyway very courageous from Mike Chambers to clarify such a big communication error from the leaders of Adobe.
But we have to face reality, since windows 8 version of IE will prevent the use of plugins by default, flash, pdf and even java applets may be banned from browsers in the near future, that would be the logical issue with standardization.
What will stay is HTML5, good news for some, bad news for us because now most CEOS of big companies will avoid to take the risk to invest on flash or AIR technologies.
Why ? Running Air needs still to install the AIR runtime on Android and other systems which is not always allowed.
On Ipad it’s different since it’s translated into machine code.
But still, if Adobe doesn’t provide a standalone AIR packager to avoid asking to the user to get AIR, then it will face the same bad fate of ShockWave. Besides, mdm multimedia has released Zinc 4, which allows for fully standalone, no install apps with flash and… Html5. That is a real challenger to Adobe AIR isn’t it ?
So If we are webdeveloppers now that people are saying everywhere that flash is dead, our future is html+css+javascript with GTK or another good framework it will do the job.
If we are app developpers we may have to take the risk to invest on Adobe AIR for mobiles but there will surely be some outsider that will provide some kind of vector 2d and 3d animation tool using html5 canvas and webgl that would output some small zip file embedding ressources.
Remember the beginnings of flash, it was a concurrent to GIF and a way to get rid of macromedia director… History seems repeating itself…
ali
11 Nov 11 at 4:51 pm
[...] Mike Chambers in an explanation on his personal blog clarified the company’s decision to drop mobile Flash. As expected by many, the absence of [...]
Adobe's Mike Chambers Explains Exit from Mobile Flash in Detail - Takes On Tech | Takes On Tech
11 Nov 11 at 4:58 pm
Honestly, I don’t have a problem with HTML5, and the strategy Adobe is taking don’t bother me either. What I hate is losing the ability to write object oriented code and have compile time type checking that is not present in javascript. If Adobe can do something similar with AS3 to what Google is doing with Dart I think a lot of us would be happy. Even if it’s only a subset of the AS3 APIs at first. Hell buy Jangaroo. http://www.jangaroo.net/home/ Otherwise, Sencha touch and Ext.JS is looking real attractive even though it’s not true OOP, they do have a good set of APIs that’s well documented and pretty easy to use. As their tooling get more advanced over years, Adobe could find themselves with a serious competitor on their hands for web application development if not already.
Terrell
11 Nov 11 at 5:07 pm
@Elie
–
So its a financial issue?
–
I covered this in the blog post, but there were a number of reasons we made this decision, one of which was resources.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 5:10 pm
@Maras
–
I make casual flash games. I should start with HTML5, right?
–
As I mentioned in my post, gaming is one of the areas that we feel are particularly suited for Flash. I would check out the starling framework:
I make casual flash games. I should start with HTML5, right?
which provides a hardware accelerated 2d API for the Flash player.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
http://www.starling-framework.org/
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 5:13 pm
@Oskitar
–
, I’d like to still developing using Flash & AS3 and at the publishing options a new output format avaliable appear called: HTML5. But what I’d like is that this functionallity translates the AS3 code to JS code and the application could have the same functionallity but in HTML5 ^^.
–
This is something we are exploring.
We are also working on Adobe Edge, which uses a lot of the same UI metaphors as Flash, but exports HTML5 / JavaScript.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 5:15 pm
@Bruce Hopkins
–
Can you comment how Adobe’s plan to “further invest in HTML5? will reach to mobile clients that need to communicate with FMS?
–
Sorry, I dont have any info on that off the top of my head, but Ill ping some people internally to see if I can find any info.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 5:16 pm
@Patrick
–
I wouldn’t like to be in your shoes Mike. It’s really hard to defend such a change in Adobe’s strategy for Flash Mobile.
–
I want to be very clear. I think we are making the correct moves (however painful). I wouldn’t have written this blog post if I didn’t believe in what we are doing.
–
My perception as a 13 years Flash developer is like a stab in the back.
Proposing to a client a content that cannot be viewable on a mobile browser – (and don’t forget tablets – a growing market) is mission impossible.
–
This does not make sense to me. The reality is that if you deploy Flash content via the Flash Player on mobile, it CANNOT be view on one of the (if not the) most popular mobile operating system (iOS).
So, the reality, is that was an issue you had to deal with before we made this announcement.
Regardless, you can continue to use Flash / Adobe AIR to create mobile applications, and deploy them across platforms, including iOS.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 5:27 pm
@anon
–
How would you compare Adobe’s long term commitment to AIR on devices vs PhoneGap?
–
As I stated in my post, we are committed to both.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
11 Nov 11 at 5:32 pm
I believe there is one thing that must be done, integrate the AIR API and AIR export to the Flash IDE and make it so Flash exports fully featured .exe/.app/.rpm and mobile executables.
Also, will we ever get a right click event? It’s extremely useful for games. Please keep the flash settings in the control panel or system tray like Java does.
We have added support for captive AIR runtimes for AIR applications, which is essentially a self contained app / pacage.
We are also adding right click support to the Flash Player. You can find some info here:
http://www.leebrimelow.com/?p=3133
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
era
11 Nov 11 at 5:33 pm
I’m just curious, if the ‘embed’ tag is part of the HTML5 specification (http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-iframe-element.html#the-embed-element), how could happen that Apple disregards it in their mobile browser implementation?
So much about standards..
Andras Csizmadia
11 Nov 11 at 5:43 pm
Mike – first off thanks so much for stepping up and putting together such a well thought out and honest response. It’s absolutely the kind of communication we need from Adobe across all media channels. I posted my thoughts on Lee Brimelow’s blog which i’ll repeat here. I’m very anxious to hear your post on Flex as we are anxious to port them to Flash / Air. I hope Adobe goes absolutely nuts on getting on every single major tech blog, business mag, newspaper to hammer their vision of flash/air on mobile – and recognizing the opportunity they have right now to help educate people in web technologies. Onwards with ending the years of mass hysteria and confusion! Get Tim Cook to post something positive ;-)
We’ve been waiting for the move for some time now and I think it, ultimately, is a very positive direction for Flash and web development in general. It is a small step forward in providing some clarity and perspective for developers in what technologies to use when building websites, games, simple apps versus even moderately complex applications.
I hope that Adobe is listening very carefully to their developer community – those with the knowledge and understanding of where we “think” Adobe is heading. They have a real struggle with public relations and offering clear communications. One of the problems is that they just never seem to give developers – or mainstream media – any solid, clearly articulated vision for the future of Flash. Consequently, it comes across as if they “don’t really know” or that they are simply sitting on the fence on their commitment to Flash. They talk about it at Adobe Max but it’s always over-shadowed by Adobe’s need to reassure to mainstream media, their emphasis on HTML 5. They need to become a populist educator of the technology. Paint The Adobe Vision with clear emphasis on where they are taking BOTH HTML 5 and Actionscript. They have simply done an abysmal job at promoting the concept of AIR – most non-technical people and many web developers haven’t a clue what it means.
If Adobe’s recent restructuring is about shifting their company towards a strong focus in offering cloud-based content consumption – offering the tools and platforms for creating and deploying these services – then continue to do everything in your power as a very influential and respected company to communicate the complete Adobe vision of this on every media channel out there.
We know their vision includes game development, but where do they sit on even moderately complex applications that run on a smartphone or tablet? Where is their vision for enterprise applications or complex , data-driven software that would be very difficult to build using existing Javascript technology? If they don’t like the use of Flash for these objectives, then say so. Give us your opinions on where you think it should go and then listen carefully to the feedback.
How do they truly position the AIR platform against other options for developers? I strongly urge Adobe to speak vocally about these things : engage…engage…engage – they must stand up and defend their choices, cut through the bullshit….and back up their moves if they want developers (and their developers’ clients) to understand, let alone commit, to using their tools. And they must do it quickly and constantly.
Here’s to healthy dialogue.
@bobtelfer
Bob Telfer
11 Nov 11 at 5:48 pm
1) The problem is not so much about making things clear with the flash community as it is crucial to make it clear in the head of the people in general. A client who had loved the idea of making an air app for his business announced to me this morning that I must forget about it because he read an article about ”Adobe pulling the plug on Flash for Mobiles”. Now this guy has NO time to read clarifications nor to sit and listen to mine. I LOST this contract period, and I looked idiot.
2) Designer at first, I learned to code directly on AS, little by little on my own. I am completely lost on where to start if i have a brilliant idea and can make it in flash but don’t have a clue about how to do it in HTML5, and every tutorials I found were complete turn offs, teaching how to draw a triangle with canvas for example. I even wrote to Colin Moock, whom to my great pleasure took the time to reply my email, but even his answers left me lost. Where do I start if i want to be able to translate my knowledge of actionscript (animations, loading xml, db connections, video cues, etc). ***Will we or will we not have a tool in Flash Pro to export what we do into a HTML5 compatible output?*** Is there a ”Bible” I can buy that would be perfect for someone who knows almost only actionscript and PHP and who needs to transpose his knowledge and ideas ? Investing time in learning Actionscript made me a unique asset wherever I was in the past, and now I am afraid it’s turned me into a dinosaur contemplating a beautiful comet falling on earth.
FredMtl
11 Nov 11 at 6:01 pm
I understand Adobe’s strategy change completely. I am committed to delivering my applications in the browser, so I have already started looking for alternatives. I was hoping that at Max, Adobe would announce a migration path based on AS3, but none came, so I have started to look at GWT, Dart, Javascript++, etc. I am still hoping that Adobe will help the AS3 community leverage their knowledge and code by creating an AS3 to Javascript compiler and Flash-like runtime. If you can say something about that, you must do it soon. Please help us here.
Ed
11 Nov 11 at 6:09 pm
Thank you so much for your explanation! I understand that you could not continue to reasonably support an increasingly fragmented set of mobile devices. But, rather than abandoning mobile flash, I think it would have been more reasonable to support only the most recent iterations of OS and chipsets. This would have dramatically reduced your development load while strongly encouraging hardware/software updates and maintaining a way for users to view existing flash web content for which there is no current alternative. Question: Will Flash Player 11.1 be compatible with Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich?
Steven Hoagland
11 Nov 11 at 6:15 pm
I still don’t get why do you care so much about Apple and their iDevices. The future doesn’t belong to them, I see more and more people using Android devices, browsing internet in the bus, metro, including Flash content embedded on web as well. Apple will finally loose that huge penetration, other vendors providing cheaper and more powerful not too mention bigger devices. Apple will finally come back to it’s old place as a niche product, people get smarter and don’t want to be told what is good for them. Android provides a choice, you want Flash – then use it, you don’t want Flash, you can disable it. I’m very unhappy with it. There could be so much new people appreciate Flash on Kindle Fire next week, but now it’s too late because Flash Player mobile became a Zombie…
sigman
11 Nov 11 at 6:19 pm
Just looking again at your post and Cantrells I almost feel that you blame Apple for your own decision….
No, not at all. It was Apple’s decision to not allow the Flash Player on iOS that ensured that the Flash Player would not achieve ubiquity across mobile operating systems. But, as I mentioned in my post, there were a number of other significant reasons (not associated with Apple) that lead us to our decision.
Mike Chambers
mesh@adobe.com
sigman
11 Nov 11 at 6:21 pm
We are a small company. We do not release games but e-learnig content, web documentaries and interactive sites (for the Internet or intranets, like museums).
We used Flash as it was a great tool to develop with but that move ruined our medium term plans as AS3 is no longer an option.
- clients started thinking about flash as a closed and old/dead technology, competitors offering html5 have more hype even offering less competitive products.
- finding skilled as3 developers used to be a pain, now it will became impossible. A young programmer isn’t interested in learning as3, it would rather prefer html5 or objective C.
So we should move to html5, that means rebuilding our skills and painfully maintain the old stuff we made with flash. Thanks Adobe..
victor
11 Nov 11 at 6:29 pm
@mike chambers
One of the concerns companies are having isn’t whether or not Adobe will commit to AIR, rather, they’re wondering how much Adobe is going to commit to AIR.
The enterprise customers are willing to move to AIR, or continue to build for AIR, if Adobe makes a compelling case that the Help Documents, Platform Stability, Tooling, EcoSystem, Innovation, and overall platform ‘excitement’ is going to advance (while remaining on US shores).
Details and real numbers will help to convince the enterprise customers to use AIR, but the message needs to come quickly.
David Buhler
11 Nov 11 at 6:51 pm
[...] hit the source link below, but we'd suggest grabbing a drink before you do so. Mike Chambers Leave A Comment Email This adobe, adobe flash player, AdobeFlashPlayer, flash, flash [...]
Adobe product manager fingers Apple for death of Flash Player for mobile -- Engadget
11 Nov 11 at 7:00 pm
I design websites as well as animated flash banner ads.
I build them directly in flash and compile into a .swf file. Since flash player will never run on Mobile devices. How much more complicated will developing these ads get for mobile phones? Can we expect a complier that will make file extensions acceptable for mobile devices? Or does something like this exist and if so could you direct me to a how to make an animated ad created in flash compatible for mobile phones.
@obxwebdesigner
11 Nov 11 at 7:41 pm
“New Datatypes for ActionScript 3″?
Please write a little more about that. :)
Daniel
11 Nov 11 at 7:58 pm
Interesting development. The most likely long term issue is that AC3 will become irrelevant unless Adobe can leverage the language into new compilers, excluding Air. As you’ve mentioned in your blog, Flash is not where Adobe is headed in the future. Oh, yes I read where you claim that desktop browser based development will continue, but how can it? The past has clearly demonstrated that orphan products (flash mobile) not only fade away, but other contingent technology soon disappears shortly after. I think the only hope for Flash in future, if it can survive, is for it to be bought by a company like Google, who can leverage it both economically and politically. Otherwise, it Flash will certainly go slowly into ‘the night’!
steve Z
11 Nov 11 at 8:04 pm
Hey Chris,
Ramon here. Don’t know if you remember me from the Amazing Media days. This is a good post. thanks for the info. I think the shift in strategy is sound. And the model has definitely changed. New playing fields will try to leverage the ‘app-store’ paradigm since that’s a huge revenue source (i.e. AppleTV, googleTV, yahoo Connected TV, etc). I understand how ‘emotionally’ attached you are to Flash having been there since the first incarnation of Generator.
The biggest point in your article, I think is that flash isn’t needed to view most rich content on mobile devices. none withstanding that iOS is closed to flash, adoption on Android may itself not be as stellar as on the PC.
Hey let’s get together man. ‘Twould be nice to see you and Kathy sometime. Ping me.
Ramon
Ramon
11 Nov 11 at 8:28 pm
I strongly agree with the comments made by Leo. Developing in ActionScript is downright enjoyable, and vastly superior to creating content with HTML/CSS/JS. ActionScript is the best programming language available today.
As software engineers, we prefer design patterns and IoC frameworks. We favor abstraction, inheritance, and strong typing. We’re not interested in creating markup and stylesheets. We don’t agree that HTML5 is the answer to the many challenging problems we need to solve. Many of us, myself included, moved away from HTML because we found ActionScript and Flash!
Adobe, we need you to show some moxie! Throw off your gloves and fight with a passion for the awesome technologies you’ve created and we love. Enough of this passive relegation. Flash is amazing, and you need to be shouting it from the rooftops, not posting timid explanations about why you’re shifting resources and changing focus.
Swallow your pride, fire your CEO, and get someone in place who can right this ship. We’re depending on you. Don’t let us down.
Rob
11 Nov 11 at 10:46 pm
I agree with Ed’s statement above. If you have any loyalty to your developer community you need to provide us with information as soon as possible if we are to trust you. I’ve been a Flash Developer for 12 years now, and as an educator I’ve introduced hundreds of students to the Flash platform. Many of those students have now gone on to be a part of the Flash community as professionals in the industry.
I have loved this platform from the moment I first started developing in it as a consultant and as an educator. In all these years, what has impressed me most is how the platform has been able to capture the imaginations of students and bring creative work out of them that even they didn’t know they had in them. Flash is more than a tool set, it has been a mindset for changing the way we view our world.
I also know that all technologies change/fade-away/die. I know that you are doing what is needed in the face of a fluid environment. Mike, I have great respect for your work and your candor, as well as the hard work of others on the Flash team.
It is difficult, however, for me to imagine that such a large company like Adobe can have such poor control of its communications. To me, this is indicative of a company unable to chart where it is going (HTML5, Flash, or whatever else might be coming). When Adobe cannot articulate a coherent and well defined vision for the world, what it is really saying is that it doesn’t know itself. I don’t want to see this happen, but I’m starting to wonder if Adobe is about to become a historical anecdote.
Tony
11 Nov 11 at 11:40 pm
Mike,
I appreciate **someone** from Adobe trying to provide a coherent explanation about what Adobe is doing and why, but I must say that the narrative on mobile Flash feels like a case of confusing correlation with causality so as to ignore an inconvenient truth.
From 2006 on, Adobe was doing the drumbeat that Flash was going to be every bit as ubiquitous on mobile as it had become on PCs and Macs. As a guy who built multiple social media sites that heavily leveraged Flash, I so wanted that to be true.
Yet, here we are in late 2011, and I cannot think of a SINGLE mobile Flash success story at the killer app level, the handset level or the carrier level. And it’s not for lack of interest on the part of any of these constituencies.
My point is that perception is that Adobe was like the ‘Boy who Cried Wolf’ for so long that when Apple came along and solved many of the problems that Flash had been known for and then Adobe STILL failed to make them pay for it on Android, RIM, etc., it was more a case of death by irrelevance than by attack.
More fodder on this point of reasoning is below, but is that an unfair assertion, or a misreading of what Adobe has accomplished with mobile Flash on other, non-iOS platforms?
Inconvenient Truths: How Adobe lost the Mobile Wars
http://bit.ly/u9XDBV
I appreciate your thoughts.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Sigal
12 Nov 11 at 12:05 am
Thank you for the well written response about the situation. I’m glad Adobe finally woke up and realized the problems with Flash in the mobile space. It’s just a shame it took so long, and lead to 750 people being unemployed.
From my understanding of other comments, Apple had planned to allow Flash on the iPhone, once a version was shown that met their quality standards. The iPhone in 2007 shipped with plugin support to allow this. As time marched on, Adobe made comments about the progress, but nothing ever came of it. 3 years later, Apple put their foot down and said no longer.
And this is when it got highly political and just made things worse. Adobe was put on the defensive, and tried to fight back. A year later, the company is coming to the same conclusions Apple did.
This situation with Apple also happened after Flash for OS X was a major power drain on laptops too, and contributed to many crashes. The crashes didn’t go unnoticed by others either, just look at the work Mozilla and Google also did to isolate plugins when Flash was the #1 reason for browser. Thankfully Adobe pulled their head out of the sand here, and Flash 10 and 11 have seen major stability and power changes since 9.
I really hope this marks a turning point for Adobe. The company has rested too long on it’s past successes, without enough future vision. Kick your upper management out if you have to, just do something to return to the Adobe that everyone loved in the 80s.
Tom C
12 Nov 11 at 12:27 am
Problem here is Adobe is looking at MONEY only. Flash/Flex and ActionScript is about 3-5 year in advanced of HTML5/CSS3/JS capabilities.
With these 3 you have to struggle yourself a lot to be able to do something that Flash can do in a single hop aka component, drag&drops and similar.
Unfortunately Adobe doesn’t see it that way, they want to bury Flash and take HTML5, so with options, features and SPEED of development we will be back practically many years in the past.
Adobe lacks of seeing something that other DO SEE, for example Google, they made DART copy of ActionScript but Adobe says NO this is old and crappy technology we like HTML5 better.
WTF folks ? I spend like years making myself an expert in Flash and now *hit happens, Adobe is not serious company, we should better move on to Google’s Android + DART and/or Microsoft Visual Studio, you will have there 10x better support then you will obviously at trembling Adobe. Even Mac’s Cocoa sounds tempting more each day.
@Ed dude Adobe will only help themselves because of Stock Market money overall, but I doubt very much they are able to do even that since they don’t know how to use Flash technology anymore.
Such big corporation just stated we are clueless we don’t know what we are doing. My opionion is those CEO’s CTO’s etc are ruining this company, you can’t find capable people to do something good for the community.
SweetTalk
12 Nov 11 at 12:29 am
Hi,
I have been a flash developer for half my life (12 years). I also worked as a 3d developer.
I chose flash for 1 purpose only, because it was the only platform that could combine different media to a rich content experience.
For half a year ago i changed my career because i felt like i wanted to work wit html 5. Flash didn’t feel like it still was the only platform anymore, and i always promised myself i would try something different when i could.
Really, i dont understand why so much developers are so suprised? I COMPLETELY understand adobe about this choice.
I have been developing a few apps with AIR for iphone and Android and it is amazing! Adobe has really worked hard on this and i sure as hell shows.
I am actually glad that adobe made this choice. I gives flash developers much better oppertunities then before. I mean, who likes making banners, right ;).
I think the last few sentences are the most important once. There was once a time where you could sell projects based on technologies, but now you really need to sit down with a client, listen to what it is they want, an then choose the right solution and technology for your project.
@Mike…. Just one important question though. When will we have stage3D support for mobile?
simon
12 Nov 11 at 1:31 am
People people, when you mention other tools based on html5/css3/JS like Sencha, i mean come on are you serious?
That software is like Flash from 2003, are we going back to the Past ?
I simply don’t get it we are in 2011/12 have great technology in our hands and now Adobe decides oh wait let’s go back few years, we are too much ahead of everyone ?!?
There is simply NO logic in what Adobe is doing, there is NO, really NONE, zip zero, nada… other technology that can compete with Flash for at least 2 years and by that time Flash should expand to something even better.
It doesn’t make any sense in supporting so much HTML5 and abandoning Flash, yeah I know Adobe will say we are not doing that – JUST YET ! but they are preparing field for it.
Today you can’t do anything proper with HTML5, surely not what Flash is capable of. You need large amount of time to do something with “trio” (html5/css/js) then what you could do in Flash.
SweetTalk
12 Nov 11 at 1:34 am
Thanks Mike for a detailed post. It clears a lot of doubts and questions.
One thing I’d like to say that, when Macromedia first introduced Flash Lite for Symbian, and tried really hard to push for the browser plugin, we developers were screaming hard, the browser plugin is not going to work.
We made and shown great apps which proved that Flash should be used as app development platform on mobile devices rather than browser plugin like on desktop.
But it seems like MM / Adobe’s habbit to learn from harsh experiences rather than clear shouts from the developer community.
I hope you guys could listen what developers are trying to tell you now for the future :)
// chall3ng3r //
chall3ng3r
12 Nov 11 at 2:02 am
You may know this blog post from Matt Gemmell, who really nailed the miscommunication around the whole issue:
http://mattgemmell.com/2011/11/09/adobe-communication/
Adobe needs to focus onto their key users when they are communicating their strategy. KISS.
Nonetheless, I think it was the right move at the right time. The interesting bit now will be the position of Flex in the future.
Klaus Busse
12 Nov 11 at 3:33 am
@Mike Thanks! From what I read in your article, I though that Flash will be good platform for console quality games, but small studio will have to switch to HTML5.
Maras
12 Nov 11 at 3:52 am
Not just flashplayer nothing currently can deliver media contents as the same destop , HTML5 itself no exeption …we always have to target and make mobile solutions . For current flash player /HTMl5!
Only exception if uyou choose flash player is IOS devices! dont allow flash player !….and Apple’s responce is like flash player is OLD, buggy not advanced, HTML5 is current NEW advanced. This is totally false now you people are making people belive that what apple said was true.
Also by this decition you are forcing developers not to make flashplayer vertions for mobile!..Also encoraging HTML5 .Then why should make a desktop only solution in flash …can make a complete solution in HTML5 so flash will die ! …….Also AIR is just growing not the biggest all in one solution when it comes to mobile apps!. If i dont want some specific air based feature (which air only can do) i can go for HTML5 and…..so flash platform may also die soon and became old history as apple predicted .
In old days flash was not just for doing things which is not possible else…also for delevering things everywhere !
keeru
12 Nov 11 at 6:10 am
Mike, you should be Adobe’s official announcer for updates like these. Well done on making things clear! Thanks!
Ed
12 Nov 11 at 6:27 am
I have the same question as ED, does Adobe plan to release a toll that will allow us to compile AS3 to HTML5/javascript?
Sorin
12 Nov 11 at 6:31 am
I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking that I’ve just gone from being a Senior Developer with 12 years experience in Flash and Flex, to being a Junior Developer with precisely zero years experience in HTML5.
Whether or not it’s a HUGE opportunity for the Flash community as a whole, individually the only opportunity it presents is for them to take a HUGE leap backwards in their career, payscale, demand, seniority, etc, etc.
Stephan Jones
12 Nov 11 at 6:41 am
What is the: “ActionScript Workers” ????
joshua
12 Nov 11 at 6:52 am
Wow, nice article. Probably the first one I read that explain in details after flash announcement. Just to clarify, I am a html5 lover, not because I hate flash, because I am a software architect and a network researcher as well in life, but I like to develop own rich interactive app as well. So, html5 is my free time project because I can save time to work on directly on CSS and JavaScript that are closer to my work. From my point, you are right. Flash has future if they continue to invest on video content and feature. Video in flash is much more highly supported in cross browser and device, don’t slow down the video development. Just to mention, video network traffic is the highest Internet traffic around the globe and I believe flash indirectly played an important role! Thanks.
P2pzon
12 Nov 11 at 8:50 am
Mike thanks for adding some clarity to the dismal communications released in the last few days.
I do want to express one very important point that none of you have touched on yet that really is the be all and end all of everything you guys are doing.
Money!!.
As a seasoned startup founder that’s currently pitching to VCs in Silicon Valley with a product built on of the Dektop Flash Player and AIR platforms I have first hand feedback on what all this bad communications has done to the investment community. The VCs all think flash is dead and anything being built on it, be it desktop or mobile app, is also bound to die!! As such it’s now going to be increasingly hard to fund projects built on top of the remaining flash platform no matter what it does or what its market potential is simply because it has “Flash” associated with it.
Now if we had a choice to use HTML5 for our project we would have already done so but HTML5 gives no access to the webcam, microphone, peer assist and quality video and thus we have no choice but to use flash to get our product out to market. With such bad vides around flash as a whole in the worlds eye’s VCs are pulling away and once that money is no longer there to fund flash based projects you can pretty much say goodbye to flash as a development platform forever.
As a computer scientist I have no problem moving onto any language or platform to build a product but AS3 has been a pleasure to work with and the capabilities flash player brought to the web have opened up so many opportunities for startups (think YouTube without flash 9) and you are killing that all by these disastrous communications.
My advise to Adobe is to get your shit together, get a brilliant PR team and fix this fast. Spend big on educating the world not just the dev community that the flash platform for desktop and mobile apps is the future with strong examples of successful products running on iOS, Android, Mac, PCs – otherwise quite frankly, there is no future for flash and if you think your going to be the provider of choice for HTML5 tooling think again, smaller, leaner, smarter startups will come and eat your lunch in that one too – all you really had was the ubiquity of flash and you’ve totally killing that off through these bad communications.
Sad but hopeful.
Denis
Denis
12 Nov 11 at 9:11 am
Tom wrote:
Total mistake made by Adobe, and tell me what actually today is the “mobile device” ? What if I will have Tegra4 powered device with 7 ich screen and detachable keyboard ( kind of Asus Transformer) with performance comparable to my PC ? Is it a netbook, tablet, smartphone ? What if I plug this device to 24ich screen and standard keyboard at office ? Doesn’t it look like a PC ? As a user I don’t care. I want to have best device with best experience but I can’t because someone call it “mobile” ?
—————————
I think this keeps getting lost in the conversation. Flash = code once . run everywhere. This is the DNA of the product. Adobe just had to hang in there for a while…. Cloud-front-ends, app store f**k ups, new browsers, etc… you name it. Anything can happen; the internet has shown us that many times over.
As Tom shows very clearly in his post; the resource issue’s at adobe could have been handled differntly. You support the few top (mobile-)browser out there; people are buying new and faster phones/tablets nearly
every year; we are allready surfing mobile the same as on the pc. You don’t need to build a mobile-site; the technology is catching up faster then you can write code. Adobe killed so much more then just Flash mobile.
AS3 + stage + Framerate; is the most beautiful language/eco-system ever made. The reason for killing mobile-flash because it is hard to keep up; is exactly what we pay Adobe for. We love your tools because you translate it for us to all the other systems. Why am i explaining your own product to you !?!?
Please learn from Coke and Netflix; say you made a mistake: you want it to make absolutly clear
FLASH = BUILD ONCE, RUN EVERYWHERE !!
Nano
12 Nov 11 at 9:31 am
While Flash has no doubt enabled a lot of features to be possible within web pages, it is unfortunate that (in much the same way that “desktop publishing” software did in the 1990s) the end result has been a massive proliferation of appalling (often Flash-only) web sites that prioritise “flash” design rather than user benefit.
When someone earlier in the discussion thread referred to Flash Mobile’s “customers”, I assume they were talking about the developers. The end users’ views tend to get very little consideration, and hence the wide usage of Flash-blockers in all major browsers (on all platforms) because of what it has become, i.e. a graphic-rich means of representing very little because simple tools are available to bad or lazy developers. I frequently have to contact companies to let them know just how bad their web sites are because of the way Flash has been used.
With apologies to the very few genuinely good implementations of Flash, and some sympathy for the Adobe team as they re-group.
Nick
NickB
12 Nov 11 at 9:55 am
[...] Before going deeper in my ideas and thoughts about the news and how it will affect us as designers and developers, let us go through Mike Chamber’s post, in which he tried to explain in full detail why Adobe decided to stop developing the mobile browser version of Flash Player. [...]
The Tale of Two Technologies: Flash and HTML5 | iPad Development
12 Nov 11 at 10:00 am
The purpose of my earlier comment being to highlight that Flash on mobile, as a direct translation of Flash on the desktop, is likely to have led to *even more* inappropriate or poor usage of the technology. So for that alone, I’m glad to see the termination of Flash Player on mobile (again, more a reflection on developers than Adobe) if for no other reason as to force web site developers to get back to thinking about presenting content, a particularly interesting challenge on mobile devices, rather than fanciful “designs” that add nothing to, or often detract from, the user experience.
Nick
NickB
12 Nov 11 at 10:03 am
[...] Mike Chambers on Flash [...]
Flash: Misunderstood by Adobe, Apple, the Haters, and the Press « SmoothSpan Blog
12 Nov 11 at 10:18 am
Mike — Thank you for the clarification. Adobe should consider consolidating their product line to eliminate the confusion with Flash in general. Flash Catalyst, Flash Professional and Flash Builder should become App Builder. App Builder would be able to publish either iOS, Android, Blackberry or HTML5 content using AS3 and the existing Flex framework. Edge would be used to produce the dancing logos, slideshows and other eye candy previously handled by Flash.
John
12 Nov 11 at 11:20 am
[...] developer relations lead Mike Chambers has posted a lengthy explanation of why the company decided stop development of the mobile browser version of [...]
Adobe Explains: Apple Won, Flash on Mobile is Done
12 Nov 11 at 11:26 am
As a developer I completely understand and appreciate your post, but I fear the message is still not clear enough for those not involved with the Flash platform.
Most people don’t know what AIR is, and the only part they take away is “Flash player for mobile will no longer be developed”.
Maybe this could be spelled out for them by stating:
AIR is the ‘new’ way to publish your games/video/media content as APPLICATIONS to mobile devices. Other browser based content (previously Flash Player on Mobile) is suggested to be done with HTML5 from now on.
Further to this, the Flash Player we all know and love in you favourite browsers will still be maintained, but will have more of a focus on specialist multimedia content.
We should start moving away from Flash for standard website content, and this has a follow on effect of being more supported on browsers on mobile and iOS etc.
Flex on the other hand should not even be mentioned in this topic. It is a whole nother beast.
Matt Thomson
12 Nov 11 at 11:39 am
[...] empowering the ‘interactive’ or ‘engaging’ web? Well Adobe and my old mate Mike Chambers would tell you one of the key reasons they are killing off Mobile Flash is in part due to Apple and [...]
HTML5 – the confusion of the web on studiowhiz.com
12 Nov 11 at 12:23 pm
[...] behind killing the Adobe Flash. So he took a step ahead and written a detailed article on his personal blog. The reasons are given below [...]
3 Big Reasons Behind The Killing Of Adobe Flash Unveiled By Adobe Employee
12 Nov 11 at 12:46 pm
@Nano
–
I think this keeps getting lost in the conversation. Flash = code once . run everywhere.
–
Yes, that is the case in the browser on the desktop, and perhaps with mobile and desktop applications (via Adobe AIR). However, the reality is that it was not the case in the browser on mobile devices, and was not on a path to achieve it.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
12 Nov 11 at 1:01 pm
@joshua
–
What is the: “ActionScript Workers” ????
–
Similar to web workers. Essentially, I type of threading model for ActionScript execution.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Workers
mikechambers
12 Nov 11 at 1:06 pm
@Stephan Jones
–
I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking that I’ve just gone from being a Senior Developer with 12 years experience in Flash and Flex, to being a Junior Developer with precisely zero years experience in HTML5.
Whether or not it’s a HUGE opportunity for the Flash community as a whole, individually the only opportunity it presents is for them to take a HUGE leap backwards in their career, payscale, demand, seniority, etc, etc.
–
I address this is my post.
I dont agree with your characterization. Knowledge of a specific technology is only one of the things employers look for when hiring engineers. If you have 12 years working with Flex and Flash, creating rich content / motion graphics and / or RIAs for the web, then I think you will be in high demand. With the growth of functionality in the browser, demand for those types of skills, knowledge and experience is high.
Again, as I posted in my blog, just look at some of the top work being doing in HTML5 today. A lot of it is done by developers who have spent the past decade doing Flash.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
12 Nov 11 at 1:12 pm
@Tony
–
If you have any loyalty to your developer community you need to provide us with information as soon as possible if we are to trust you.
–
Isn’t that what we are doing?
While we certainly could have handled the communication better, we are being very upfront and forward about what we are doing, why we are doing it, and how we see things moving forward.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
12 Nov 11 at 1:44 pm
@obxwebdesigner
–
I design websites as well as animated flash banner ads.
I build them directly in flash and compile into a .swf file. Since flash player will never run on Mobile devices. How much more complicated will developing these ads get for mobile phones? Can we expect a complier that will make file extensions acceptable for mobile devices? Or does something like this exist and if so could you direct me to a how to make an animated ad created in flash compatible for mobile phones.
–
Check out both Wallaby:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/wallaby/
and Adobe Edge:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/edge/
For iOS based ads, check out Apple’s iAds producer:
http://developer.apple.com/iad/iadproducer/
Hope that helps…
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
12 Nov 11 at 1:50 pm
@Victor
–
We are a small company. We do not release games but e-learnig content, web documentaries and interactive sites (for the Internet or intranets, like museums).
We used Flash as it was a great tool to develop with but that move ruined our medium term plans as AS3 is no longer an option.
- clients started thinking about flash as a closed and old/dead technology, competitors offering html5 have more hype even offering less competitive products.
- finding skilled as3 developers used to be a pain, now it will became impossible. A young programmer isn’t interested in learning as3, it would rather prefer html5 or objective C.
So we should move to html5, that means rebuilding our skills and painfully maintain the old stuff we made with flash. Thanks Adobe..
–
There is no reason you can’t continue to do that in Flash.
If you want to deploy to mobile browsers, then you need to either create an app using Adobe AIR, or use HTML5. This was the case prior to our announcements.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
12 Nov 11 at 1:54 pm
Mike wrote:
-
However, the reality is that it was not the case in the browser on mobile devices, and was not on a path to achieve it.
-
I will take this on your word; still why make anything out of this current stat and kill this great message you had. Android is growing like never before; the Amazon Fire is looking to be off to a great start; lots of people starting to feel the drawbacks of a closed app environment. What if the Cloud means people will move back to the browser.
oh how i wished you would have let this change of eco- systems play out a bit more…..I hope the future will prove you right.
But appart from that I think what makes me very sad; is that you give up the fight. In a world dominated bij closed eco-systems ironicaly your proprietary solution was keeping the gates open. Flash could bypass the pay-walls and app selection commitees and deliver any (animated) message or game to your mobile; people are actively figuring out ways to get it on the iDevices; yes it is a struggle, yes it is hard; but it is also a great artistic adventure. Standing it’s ground Adobe could have done its own version of Apple’s famous 1984 ad. But I am not naive; the next quarter is up…. MBA excelsheets predict flash will not make it into the mobile browser….. we don’t learn anything from a financial crisis it seems.
Nano
12 Nov 11 at 2:11 pm
@Nano
–
still why make anything out of this current stat and kill this great message you had.
–
I addressed this in my post:
-
having to do specific work for different combinations of OS, Hardware and event components has taken a significant amount of resources. For each new device, browser and operating system released, the resources required to develop, test and maintain the Flash Player also increases. This is something that we realized is simply not scalable or sustainable.
-
–
But appart from that I think what makes me very sad; is that you give up the fight.
–
I dont think we have given up the fight. We stopped putting resources in one area (Player in mobile browsers), so we could focus them in other areas (mobile apps, desktop player, HTML5).
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
12 Nov 11 at 2:20 pm
Hi Mike,
Thank you for sharing your point of view. Here my opinion regarding this whole debacle:
I think that Adobe, amidst a contraction of demand for their tools, probably caused by the global recession (note: we’re seeing the same contraction in entertainment software, for ex), made the decision to fire 8% of their employees, and turned against its own Flash developer community by forcing them to buy immature new tools (ex: HTML5/Edge), when the old ones (Flash/Flash Professional & Flex) are full featured and work just fine.
What is particularly grating, is that it is not an issue of performance as some would have you believe, since Flash is typically faster than HTML5 in most benchmarks ( http://www.craftymind.com/guimark3/). To top things off, mobile devices have really caught up in terms of raw power over the last 2 years, so that what were once performance concerns (including for HTML5!), are either no longer, or significantly less so.
I do not believe that this move has anything to do about security concerns either, since although Flash has been attacked a lot recently, I think this has more to do with its popularity than with Flash itself, insofar as HTML5 will likely suffer from the same amount of security vulnerabilities as its use increases. In fact, at least initially, I think it is likely that HTML5 will suffer MORE security vulnerabilities, due to its current immaturity and fragmentation.
Regarding the argument that Flash drains the battery, I believe there is (rather: was) some veracity to that, although I don’t think, as other readers have pointed out, that this is entirely Flash’s fault: rather the type of content responsible for such drainage was not meant for mobile platforms in the first place (read: large graphic datasets, be it textures or vectors, sometimes with filters and blend modes), and such issue would occur in HTML5 just as well, if the same type of content was to run on it.
Where Adobe carries most of the blame, in my opinion, is in being late in fully supporting GPU acceleration. The just released molehill API addresses these shortcomings but this is apparently, unfortunately, 2 years too late! We should also note that Apple should carry some of the blame as well as far Flash’s late GPU acceleration, since they prevented Flash from using GPU acceleration for video.
As other developers have pointed out, HTML5 is not really ready for prime time, and there is a substantial amount of testimonies about how cumbersome it is to author content in. So, as far as developers are concerned, this is a great leap backward, just so that Adobe can make money for the next 10 years.
A word to Adobe: shame on you for letting us (the flash developer community) down, as well as for firing 750 employees while taking in 1.1 billion in revenue for the last quarter of 2011, considering that 4 to 5% of that would probably have been sufficient to keep these jobs for the year, as well as to support flash on mobile–not that it takes 750 people to support flash on mobile: 30-50 good engineers is likely amply sufficient.
Although I agree that Jobs didn’t want Flash on iPhone mostly for economic reasons ( so that users would not be able to bypass the App Store for their app needs), as well as for spite (if you read his biography), I think he was right about one thing: one should not depend on/trust Adobe.
Jean
12 Nov 11 at 8:25 pm
I have previouslyly used devices that come with flash, but then end up useless because Flash isn’t updated, while most websites reuire the latest version of Flash. Does that mean that when Flash 12 comes out, Mobile Flash player will be useless, even w/ security updates?
Debbie Klatzman
13 Nov 11 at 1:46 am
Ok, my original comment never made it past moderation. Fair enough; it was too flippant.
So let me ask again, in a serious and non-rhetorical way:
Surely, what killed Flash on Mobile wasn’t the fact that Apple disallowed it on iOS, but the fact that it never ran well enough in the first place?
Again, I’m asking this question seriously. If Apple were just being the political jerks that so many people accused them of, all Adobe had to do to call their bluff was circulate videos of Flash running smoothly on jailbroken iPhones, with good battery life, and that would have taken the wind out of Apple’s argument. No?
I ask because I dislike the amount of double-talk there’s been around this, and that even as they kill the product, Adobe still seems unable to admit that they were wrong.
The way that Adobe has handled this just gob-smacks me. No disrespect to your post or writing in particular, but the whole way this has been communicated is a mess! This decision was a big deal, and there should have been a single, clear statement from Shantanu, not the PR gobbledygook that we got and the spaghetti of incoherent apologies spread across various Adobe blog sites.
Ian Davies
13 Nov 11 at 2:37 am
thanks Mike for the explanation of intents, the strategy taken by Adobe makes a little more sense now. You should handle their next communications as well to avoid more panic in the future :)
alessandro
13 Nov 11 at 2:47 am
I, like most of the flash community, have been thinking about how this will affect me and what Adobe could have done differently.
And here’s the interesting thing – the fact that flash’s days are numbered isn’t really the problem (we all kind of knew that it’s just the bad PR from this has significantly accelerated that).
The problem is that Adobe hasn’t shown that it thinks AS3 has a future. We have all invested a lot of time and energy into AS3 – there is now lots of public code
libs. and lots of AS3 developers who are worried that all of that is irrelevant and we now need to the very basic world of javascript coding.
What Adobe could have done (maybe will do) is announce that its moving AS3 to be something like Haxe – a top level programming language that compiles down to native code – it already does this for swf and iOS – but if you add in native android, html5 and Metro-apps that makes a pretty attractive language and tool set.
My concern it that while this is quite possible to do I dont if Adobe wants to do this. I fear that Adobe isn’t happy having programmers as its customers and whats to go back to being a company that focuses on designers.
david doull
david doull
13 Nov 11 at 3:02 am
I find it hard to know how to express in words how disappointed I am at Adobe for this.
I feel Steve Jobs was an ass for selling his iFlock on the idea that HTML5 actually “replaced” Flash. We all know it doesn’t match features. But my client’s don’t know that – and now the way the media has spinned this, they all think Apple was right and Flash is dead.
Of course, they are right. Here is what they know:
My client knows that mobile computing is very important in the near future. They ALL want to target tablets and phones. Rarely do I get a job that could be made into an “app”, but that is because I work in advertising/marketing. More than banners (banners are going to be easy to make in HTML5, to the painful surprise of iPhone fans who have mocked Flash).
My clients knew that mobile was stuck with a “weak” version of their cool web experience today, but had hope for tomorrow with Flash on Android. Especially tablets – which from a user standpoint are not that different than a desktop. Tablets like the transformer just blur that line even more. Now the thought (and they are right) is to just have us build everything in HTML5 and put equal focus on the mobile giving them a great experience too. Which is as it should be – if only we had a graphical engine to code once and deploy everywhere right?
This is what I know:
Platforms are only relevant by their content. Just ask SGI how well things went when their apps migrated to the PC. Once the content left, so did the users.
If I am going to develop a HTML5 site for iOS on the iPad, then that is going to be good enough for the desktop too. Soon, we will get rusty with Actionscript and the Flash IDE. It just won’t be our choice to develop in for anything. I bet others will follow this path – and that’s the end of Flash.
As for AIR for mobile. Look, Adobe isn’t in a great spot here. I don’t know much about how well AIR actually runs on mobile, but I hear that it is slow compared to native compiled code. Also, there is fact in what Steve Jobs said about something like AIR being always behind the features available from the native API. From what I understand, I don’t have access to all the features of iOS from that Adobe exporter.
And the idea of faith in the platform. How will I know that if Apple turns around and bans AIR apps compiled into iOS apps again that Adobe won’t just abandon the AIR platform on mobile? Apple was a bully and gave Adobe a black eye – and now they know if they want to change Adobe’s platform strategy, all they need to do is ban the technology from iOS and Adobe will eventually abandon it.
I am all for cross platform development, but I’ll be wondering if apps like Mosunc or Marmalade aren’t the better way to go over AIR. The competition is going to be fierce for Adobe.
I suppose Adobe might make AIR the platform of choice for cross-development on mobile apps. Anything is possible. It gives thousands of developers like who don’t need apps nothing to look forward to though.
My last thought – Adobe should just open source the Flash player. Then we would have Flash on iOS (granted through a jailbreak, but it would happen pretty quick) and the community could work to improve performance. If Adobe can’t handle it, let someone else instead of just killing it.
Brian McBride
13 Nov 11 at 3:19 am
@Terrell Did you know that Jangaroo even supports Ext JS and (experimentally) Sencha touch? We call this Ext AS and provide something similar to MXML, called EXML:
https://github.com/CoreMedia/jangaroo-tools/wiki/Ext-AS
Thus, you can have both: continue to use class-based, statically typed OOP in AS3 *and* use Sencha touch to target mobile devices / Ext JS for the desktop. Might even be cooler than trying to re-implement Flash in HTML5 (what we call JooFlash)!
Frank
13 Nov 11 at 4:02 am
HTML5 just means developers will be going back to 90′s style coding in JavaScript (jQuery). The problem is that interactivity in JavaScript is far far below what Flash can deliver currently. It’s really dumb why the Web wants to go backwards to 90′s JavaScript coding. The HTML5 movement will be known as the Web’s Dark Age.
JavaScript is also a much larger “security risk” than Flash by about 3 times. We all know it is much safer to cruise the Web without JavaScript on.
The new “Turn off JavaScript for a Safer Web” campaign is coming. We will teach users how to turn the JavaScript plug-in off in their browsers, and then we will see how interactive HTML5 is without its much needed crutch of JavaScript!
———-
I would check out some of the new stuff in the browsers, and in the pipeline. You can do some pretty cool stuff motion graphic wise usign HTML5 / CSS3 / JavaScript.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
RazorX
13 Nov 11 at 7:04 am
Hi Mike,
First of all, thank you for theses clarifications.
I have only 2 questions :
1) Is it possible to imagine that as3 tools (Flash / Flex) can produce HTML5/JS/CSS directly through a “packager” like the one for iOs native applications ? Is it possible to add a real “packager” for Android, because comparing to runtime (even “captive”), performances and size of applications could be then highly improved ?
2) What are the plans concerning Windows Phone 7.* ? Will we be able to target Windows Phone with an Air application too ? Will it be via a “packager” ?
I understand perfectly your point about this lost “ubiquity” of the Flash player, even if for me Adobe’s decision has little to do with iOs refusal to integrate the FP, but more about Microsoft current position (…) I think iOs is loosing market shares everyday in any case, and with a third big player like Microsoft, in 2 or 3 years, 90 % market will be distributed between Microsoft and Android.
But to regain this “ubiquity”, the best way in my opinion is to give the huge community of AS3 developpers tools to target any ecosystem (HTML5 for browsers, native packagers for native apps). The things is that lots of AS3 developpers will not switch to something like JS, because it is not a real language, and it is simply horrible to play with. But if Adobe can “encapsulate” all this in tools that allow to us to “write once, run anywhere” like before with FP, I think that Adobe may regain the trust of the community and also be really successfull financially speaking.
Thanks in advance for your answers,
Nils
Nils Karadian
13 Nov 11 at 7:34 am
One thing is clear Mike, if you read the thousands of developer comments I have over the last few days…
You guys have just completely lost the trust from developers. I mean utterly and completely destroyed it. No one feels like they can have faith in Adobe any longer.
The next week is crucial times, you need to prove that Adobe is SERIOUS about a long term commitment to AIR. Immediately. Otherwise the hemoraging of your developers is going to become a river, and in no time at all AS3 will be all but dead.
People feel betrayed, and more importantly they are scared. They are scrambling right now. Adobe will fee these repercussions for years, anything you can do n the short term is worth it’s weight in gold.
Your post has gotten some traction, I’ve seen a number of articles written on it. But it’s not nearly enough, we need something that the press will fully pick up on. We also need much more details about what the commitment level is to AIR, from the top.
Remember, youve lost trust. You can no longer simply throw out a vague “were committed to both” and expect it to fly. Adobe needs to be clear, detailed, and above all strong, and it needs to move fast. That is, if you care at all about keeping your developers…
———–
Yes. We completely realized that this was not communicated well, and our relationship with the community has been damaged. We also realize that regaining that trust is something that will not happen overnight, and will only occur based on our actual actions.
We screwed up in communicating this stuff. We have a lot of work to do if we hope to gain that trust back.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Shawn
13 Nov 11 at 9:16 am
Hi everybody,
personally I’m glad to hear that Flash for mobile browser gets dropped. And I think it is completely sensible, not only from a resource point of view at Adobe.
How does web content usually get consumed on mobile devices? Through mobile browsers? Yes, if you want to google something, read some wiki, maybe even newspapers, check some blogs and so on. Do you check your facebook profile on a mobile browser? Probably not. For that kind of stuff, you got so-called apps. Your social media profiles, often-used mail accounts, your most loved news sites, your games, everything you use more often than once a day and everything that has to be more than just simple info presentation, gets consumed through apps.
Me as a Flash guy wouldn’t want to produce simple info presentation web widgets with a touchy way of things, I’d wanted to go for the cutting edge experience and for that I’d never use a limited browser API if there’s a so much more intriguing way of doing things, based on the possibilities of the device itself.
The only trade off when going with apps is that you’ll eventually have to port your program.
And this is where AIR steps in. And if the guys at Adobe spend more time getting AIR to the next level instead of maintain some obsolete platform, it’s just fine with me.
Regards
Lukas Bünger
13 Nov 11 at 9:39 am
Just to expand on where I’m coming from, I have several AIR apps out now on all the mobile platforms, they are quite successful, I have a new AIR based game coming out soon. I KNOW how good AIR is, I know what it can bring to the table.
I also have felt for a long time that flag in the browser was on its way out, I feel the browser in its entirety is bein relegated to a utility role.
So by and large, I had no prblem whatsoever with this move, logistically. You’re focusing on AIR? Awesome move, air rules!
But even I am starting to self doubt… Am I being gullible? Am I being stupid for believing that Adobe really will support AIR in the long run? Nothing that has been said by Adobe publicly has been more than lukewarm confirmation of AIR… Isit just lip service? Or maybe some sort 12mth see how it goes level of commitment?
For example, there is a massive difference between saying “we are focusing on air” vague and non committal, vs saying ” we have increased our engineering efforts by 50% in AIR to ensure it is the best mobile deployment platform in the world, within 12 mths we will investing heavily in improving AIR on mobile, as well as significant development of additional mobile centric APIs”…. Just an example obviously, but the point is, show us you see the vision, and be specific on what steps adobe is doing to get there.
I realize those announcements may be in flux, and maybe planned for a later date, but like it or not this is full scale damage control mode youre in now, so even if it’s subject to change, or not completely accurate, a more detailed plan is desperately needed.
Shawn
13 Nov 11 at 9:58 am
It’s pretty confusing for me :
We are focusing work around the Flash Platform on:
Mobile Applications created with Adobe AIR.
But :
“…many of the engineers and product managers who worked on Flex SDK will be moving to work on our HTML efforts.”
They have a common code base, isn’t it? Why two different perspectives?
———
The Flex SDK has a completely seperate codebase from the runtimes.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
vincent
13 Nov 11 at 10:54 am
I think Adobe took the reasonal choice. Everybody who is thinking different, please provide us with some excellent flash mobile use cases.
Maybe this announcement was just the drop that some flash developers were waiting to be sure to move to HTML5 development. I think it’s a very good idea to learn HTML5 so you always have the advantage of knowing what both technologies can do, over the rest of the developers.
Flash is dead, long live Flash. This is how I call my latest blog article with my assumptions for the future http://www.allaboutflash.com/flash-is-dead-long-live-flash/
Ciprian Caba
13 Nov 11 at 2:19 pm
Mike,
Thanks for the post. As you point out the communication of this could have much been better, especially as the cognitive bias out there for the “Flash is Dead” meme would turn any Flash announcement into a “sky is falling” moment.
I see it more as Flash outgrowing the usefulness of the mobile browser as a way to distribute and run applications. When our clients have the option of a website or app, and we can use the same technologies and effort to develop either one, they have always chosen the app. It’s the same on the desktop.
In the wider context it’s a browser-based-application vs natively-running-application (with HTML5/Flash available to both) competition, and the browser is loosing.
Robin
Robin Hilliard
13 Nov 11 at 4:13 pm
Two may be able to be declared.
Continue development of the Flash Player mobile version.
Unless it is carried out, he does not buy HTML5 product of Adobe.
He does not buy the product relevant to it, either.
The only way Adobe restores a user’s trust in development of the Flash Player mobile version continuing.
Even if it promotes HTML5 in such the state, a user does not follow.
You should take this to heart.
Are absolute.
sas
13 Nov 11 at 7:11 pm
Hmm. Why are you censoring posts, Mike? I wrote a sincere comment about open sourcing the Flash VM days ago. Apparently this article is more spin than discussion.
————
It may have been caught by my spam filters for some reasons, it may not have been moderated yet (I still have 150 to go through), it have accidentally been deleted, it may have been off topic, or it may have not been constructive.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Jamie Scanlon
13 Nov 11 at 9:20 pm
You should keep support Flash player of Mobile or PS VITA.
Flash can do more and better than HTML5.
If you use HTML5 for apple, it’s ok.
But plz support flash player on Android.
Android user
13 Nov 11 at 11:10 pm
If only this article would get as much attention as the “flash is dead” comments are getting. Thanks for clearing everything up, hope the shift in resources helps out us game developers :)
Porter
14 Nov 11 at 1:09 am
[...] Clarifications on Flash Player for Mobile Browsers, the Flash Platform, and the Future of Flash by Mike Chambers If a Flash feature is successful, it will eventually be integrated into the browser, and developers and users will access it more and more via the browser and not Flash. [...]
Koniec Flasha?
14 Nov 11 at 1:45 am
It would have been nice if I got an answer to my question but maybe you haven’t see it, so I ask again. Does Adobe plan to release a tool similar with GWT from Google, that will allows us to convert AS3 to HTML5/javascript?
———-
As part of our contribution of the Flex SDK to the Apache Foundation, we will be releasing the source from an experimental compiler, named FalcolnJS, that cross compiles ActionScript to JavaScript.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Sorin
14 Nov 11 at 2:03 am
[...] announcement to be enough but I don’t think it was enough. Then yesterday I read a beautiful article by Mike Chambers on his blog the product manager at Adobe. He described in well deserving detail [...]
Clarifications on why Adobe ended mobile flash development | Tech Blessing
14 Nov 11 at 2:22 am
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your clarifications.
The problem I see from this news is not just the way it was announced, but the implications of this decision. That is, in the same way that other people are commenting, with the whole industry supporting html5 (and now also Adobe) not just for traditional web pages (static html) but also for some kinds of multimedia content, flash will be relegated to niche markets and its very possible that at medium or long term will be a really dead tecnology.
I think flash is an integrated tool to develop pure multimedia, although has evolved into a most complete platform that can even be used for application/interface development (and now more advanced games and multimedia). Something like a more complete “multimedia authoring platform”. Html5 is never going to be more complete or integrated than an application specialised in those areas. For that, I think the market needs this kind of environment to develop multimedia content.
Also, if you also support html5, like all the industry, many people from now on will go away from the platform because the impression is that in a given time, there will be no flash, and this move will accelerate the process. But even worse than that is that Adobe is giving indirectly the reason to Steve Jobs and to all those who support a “traditional web”.
I understand all your arguments, and that Adobe like any other company looks for a ROI in their products, but with this strategic change, I think many developers will go away from the platform. You’ll have a really difficult task in convince people otherwise. That o you will be “stuck” just with html5 (html6, html7, etc) technology, like the rest of the planet, and i’m not so sure that Adobe will be succesful working for a plaftorm thats not “own” and that all other companies will be working for, even with free development tools.
I work for a small company not just as an actionscript developer (initially as Director/lingo), I develop also in xhtml, css, javascript, php, mysql, etc., integrating all technologies, so do not think I have problems to keep working, but will be a real shame to lose a technology like Flash.
I hope I’m wrong.
Regards
Pedro Fernandez
————-
Pablo, thanks for the considered comments.
–
I think flash is an integrated tool to develop pure multimedia, although has evolved into a most complete platform that can even be used for application/interface development (and now more advanced games and multimedia). Something like a more complete “multimedia authoring platform”. Html5 is never going to be more complete or integrated than an application specialised in those areas. For that, I think the market needs this kind of environment to develop multimedia content.
–
Well, I think that this type of tooling / platform stack is still possible. Do we have 100% control over the platform? No. But as our recent work with WebKit and the W3C show:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/cssregions/
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/html5/articles/css-shaders.html
we can help move the platform forward. There is no reason to expect that we are not also working on tools an technologies to take advantage of existing and new features in that platform.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
–
Pedro
14 Nov 11 at 2:30 am
I am Totally confused.
during this months I was heavily focused on AS3, learning this language very hard, because I was excited with Flex (one code for several platforms).
Now as I know flex is dead (handed to community), Flash for mobile is dead.
can you make me favour and provide me suggestions?
1. should i continue learn AS3 or just refocus another OOP language? in other wors what is future for AS3
———-
Well, it depends on what type of work / projects you are doing.
If you are building Flex applications, I would continue to learn AS3, but also start to play around with javaScript and understand current HTML app frameworks.
If you are building games, advanced video content, then just use AS3 / Flash.
If you are doing animation and motion graphics, then I would definately get familiar with javaScript and CSS3 transitions, transforms and animations. Check out:
http://beta.theexpressiveweb.com/
for more info on those.
Hope that helps…
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Levan Metreveli
14 Nov 11 at 4:40 am
[...] Mike Chambers (Flash Platform): http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/2011/11/11/clarifications-on-flash-player-for-mobile-browsers-the-f… [...]
dashart.de – dahinter :: behind » Adobe stoppt die Weiterentwicklung des Flash Players Mobile
14 Nov 11 at 5:13 am
[...] as well. Mike Chambers, principal product manager for developer relations for the Flash platform, all but says so on his blog: …if you wanted to use Flash to deliver a rich web experience in the browser on mobile [...]
Developer relations manager for Flash, explains the decision to pull the plug on mobile development : Design & Theory
14 Nov 11 at 6:20 am
[...] not constantly being asked “Yeah, but does your iPad run Flash? Huh? Does it?” With Adobe’s move to end development of the mobile Flash plugin and focus more resources on HTML 5 tools, the mobile web landscape changed this week (presumably [...]
Talkcast tonight: A flash in the (tablet) pan - other sites - other site updates
14 Nov 11 at 7:49 am
Mike,
I have two questions, and I am not trying to be a jerk when I ask these:
1. Were you ever able to get Flash running on an iPhone properly, and…
2. Did you ever show Jobs an iPhone running Flash in an acceptable manner?
In your entire article (I have not read all the comments, so maybe you answered this) I never once heard you say that Adobe took any responsibility for getting Flash to work as it should on any mobile device. You seem to beat around the bush about downloads at app stores and the Internet is changing and too many devices and platforms, so Adobe is moving on. Maybe I missed it. But why couldn’t Adobe get Flash to work properly…on any mobile device?
——-
Unfortunately, I cant speak about our interactions with Apple. Those are between Adobe and Apple.
However, mobile applications built on Adobe AIR (which is based on the Flash Player) run very well on Apple iOS. Indeed, a number of applications built with Adobe AIR have been featured on the front page of the Apple App store (such as Tweethunt).
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Bladerunner
14 Nov 11 at 7:53 am
[...] has been an interesting week in the Flash world. Various announcements and clarifications about the future of Flash, which seem to add up [...]
So what are Adobe up to with Flash?
14 Nov 11 at 8:32 am
I hope “working on HTML5″ doesn’t mean I have to hand-code all those sub-standard “standards” that retains and kills and revives the infamous . If this is the path Adobe is going after, they’d better provide direct Flash-to-HTML tools.
From the looks of it, I’m not entirely sure about the desktop version of Flash Player. The tone of the announcement is a lot like GoLive, were a new GoLive 9 was promised – and delivered as expected, and then just immediately dies off.
I’m fine with being able to deliver content somehow, but whatever happens, please don’t kill Player – both the web and standalone ones. I need the web one to see and interact with those mini-programs that aren’t part of the browser*, and the standalone player (projector) is the best way to view SWFs smoother than the web one and distribute double-click-and-run standalone programs that require no installation – unlike AIR.
* And therefore won’t go BACK whenever I press Backspace; and I also refuse to upgrade browser because computers in general are getting less user-friendly these days.
———-
First, we are not killing Flash Player on the desktop. This is noted in my blog post.
–
I hope “working on HTML5″ doesn’t mean I have to hand-code all those sub-standard “standards” that retains and kills and revives the infamous . If this is the path Adobe is going after, they’d better provide direct Flash-to-HTML tools.
–
While we are looking at tools for hand coding all of this new stuff, we are also working on a number of tools and technologies to help designers and developers work with HTML5. The most public at this point is:
Adobe Edge
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/edge/
Which has a model which should be familiar to anyone who has worked with Flash.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
nocturnal YL
14 Nov 11 at 8:45 am
Flash is dead now. Why will Adobe keep it once HTML5 is working on mobile? Good thing I never fully learned AS3 and stuck with AS2.
Something to think about. HTML to this day never worked flawlessly across all platforms but HTML5 will?
How about when MS, Apple, and Google start trying to do their own “flavor” due to dreamed up reasons that are only to sabotage another comanies devices?
Sad day.
Chris
14 Nov 11 at 9:36 am
I think the tag “Canvas” coming from the HTML5 should be translated into the Flash element, so the HTML5, gain the features of Flash and enable the community to continue its development indirectly, either Desktop or Mobile. In this view the plugin would be embedded in browsers (dll, so, …) and they would access in a more transparent and direct the “plugin”.
Marcio Napoli
napoli.marcio@gmail.com
Marcio Napoli
14 Nov 11 at 9:54 am
Adobe has just put a lot of people out of work and not just the 700 employees they laid off. If Adobe was just going to switch to using Air for mobile, they should have just said that without the annoucement that basically killed any future that Flash now has. It makes no since to continue to use Flash if it is not available for mobile and that is the new market that is taking over the PC market.
Jackson Turner
14 Nov 11 at 10:15 am
The main issue here is perception. How do clients perceive this announcement? Some don’t care, Flash is still the only way to produce the content they want for browsers. Some have completely stopped production of any content in Flash.
I somehow tend to agree with Stephan Jones’ post. Before the announcement I had a strong resume. Now many perceive that I have outdated skills which is not true but unfortunately that doesn’t matter. What counts is what companies/employers/clients believe. It seems Adobe needs a refresher in marketing 101.
I don’t think that most Flash developers have any problem moving to HTML 5 or any other technology. Once you learn a few programming languages, switching requires effort but it’s not that difficult.
Funny (and sad) to see how many people believe that developers can create the same content in HTML 5. Good luck making an FWA site in HTML 5. Adobe’s PR blunder just made my life more difficult than necessary.
JC
14 Nov 11 at 10:17 am
Hi Mike,
I think I understand reasons why Adobe made it’s decision.
AD companies will be happy – today it’s easy to block Flash/BMP banners… tomorrow all these Flash haters will cry with us, because it will be much more difficult to filter HTML ads!
Apple and Google will be happy – people will be forced to do apps for app-markets = easy profit for them.
Adobe will be happy as well = they will sell tools for making AIR aps, HTML5 aps, host paid fonts and maybe other cloud services. Not so big profit like for the big app-market holders imho.
Developers will have to live with that.
It’s just a shame Adobe give up even with FlashLite – I still think it’s not possible to do nice looking rich vector animations in HTML – at least without huge even compressed ML. SWF was well designed by Macromedia in days where every data bit was expensive. It’s really silly to drop everything and start making ads and moving DIVs in HTML instead.
Oldes
14 Nov 11 at 10:47 am
[...] recognition feature on Android phones can be tricked with a good photograph. – Damon DarlinClarifications on Flash Player and the Future of Flash mikechambers.com | A looooong post by Mike Chambers of Adobe “clarifying” the future of [...]
The Best of Scuttlebot - NYTimes.com
14 Nov 11 at 12:41 pm
Hi Mike,
Will there be a Flash Player for IE10 on Windows 8 for ARM?
Thanks!
P.S. The “Flash Focus” blog post should totally link to your much more informative explanation of what’s going on.
btn
14 Nov 11 at 12:50 pm
i’m sorry but i cannot bear all the whining coming from adobe. you’ve had PLENTY OF TIME to provide the world with a better compiler. i would have considered a complete rewrite. why? because code needs to be efficient to compete. and efficiency has lately not been a strength of flash. at all. so please: STOP WHINING!
———
I dont think anyone was “WHINING!”. I thought we were pretty open and straight forward about the factors that led to our decision. If that came across as whining, then that was a failure on my part of communicating my thoughts clearly.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Martin
14 Nov 11 at 3:12 pm
[...] a blog post on Friday, Adobe Flash developer relations chief Mike Chambers said Apple's intransigence on the [...]
Adobe: Apple helped push us into dropping Flash | BlackBerry News from BlackBerryHandhelds.co.uk
14 Nov 11 at 10:32 pm
Hi Mike
Thanks again, your post paints a picture that makes more sense. The only point of contention for me is HTML 5.
I’ve been around long enough to see desktop give way to browser and so seen first hand the loss of performance, massive increases in development durations, large loss of functionallity and general barriers to business development as a result. It does seem that for the most part we made a huge step backwards when ultra thin clients became an obsession before, so I can’t help thinking the same is happening again because I just don’t see all we’ve gained with flex and associated frameworks being replaced without the same happening again.
In 2001 I pursued the web with nagging doubts which haven’t gone away and after a recent in depth review of it recently those doubts remain, leaving me wondering the contention that HTML 5 is the future was a poorly thought out statement rather visionary?
Michael
15 Nov 11 at 2:24 am
[...] apple helped to kill flash! Check out the story. Clarifications on Flash Player for Mobile Browsers, the Flash Platform, and the Future of Flash at M… Liked [...]
Help The Crack Team - Send in news tips! - Page 10 - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com
15 Nov 11 at 3:18 am
[...] abandon flash player plugin for mobile, so i’m probably the last one that writes an article. Clarifications from Mike Chambers I never believed that flash will have success on mobile browser, I never use the browser unless i [...]
» What to do if Flash dies When a flash developer and photographer moves to London
15 Nov 11 at 4:32 am
Good job and good points Mike! Thank you!
As I have mentioned in my post, the decision driver for use of technology should be based on the evaluation of how the audience will be interacting with the content: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=97709520201&topic=16750
Adobe should keep up with the latest industry’s trends (regardless whether Flash, HTML5, Air…) to provide us with the tools we need as developers to create the user experience the audience demands…
- Galin
Galin
15 Nov 11 at 6:49 am
Mike,
i do understand you and Adobe’s view on the subject, but the fact is why would I want to move to HTML5? (just because it’s mainstream isn’t an option), the flash platform gives me the great advantage of targeting every browser with one technology, whereas with html5, css,javascript and svg, (that’s already 4 diferente technologies to master) I will have to almost deploy a different implementation for each browser (i know that’s not entirely true) but non the less it a lot of work more that really doesn’t compensate, I can’t tell my clients that something I used to do in flex or flash that used to take like 5 hours developing, will take 3 times more in html5, css, and whatever and will cost more to the client. plus I can’t vouch it will be the same experience in all browsers. For me this is kind of a show stopper, it will be harder to maintain and it is a step back.
————-
“i do understand you and Adobe’s view on the subject, but the fact is why would I want to move to HTML5?”
Well, you may not want to, and unless you want to target mobile browsers, you definitely dont have to. The point remains though, that in general, more and more stuff that was traditionally reserved for Flash, will increasingly be possible in HTML5.
Whether you choose to shift some of your work is a decision you have to make based on what you like to do, your clients, and the specifics of your projects.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Hugo
15 Nov 11 at 7:24 am
Mike, Thank you for the post and on clearing up some false issues that are being portrayed within the media world. I have grown fond of Flash and, knowing how popular the mobile market is, I’m sad it will not be able to make a bigger impact than it has today.
Would you be able to give me some personal advice as to what you feel are the best programmes available that will pick up the short fall within this area of development?
Also, I would like to say that I understand the need for change and I’m happy that now a line has been drawn under this subject. Developing for the mobile future now takes a more direct path, and we, as developers, can take a more direct approach fully understanding browser compatability for our porojects.
The issue with the iOS software needed to be resolved and it takes a bigger/better man (company) to make the decisive step.
regards.
———
Well, it really depends on the type of work you are doing. If you are building games, then I would look at the new stuff in Flash Player 11 and in particular, check out the Starling framework:
http://www.starling-framework.org/
If you are doing animation, motion graphics, then in addition to Flash, you can check out some of the canvas libraries, such as
EaselJS
http://www.easeljs.com
processing.js
http://processingjs.org/
I would also check out some of the new CSS3 stuff such as CSS3 Transforms, Transitions and Animation.
http://beta.theexpressiveweb.com/
is a good place to find info on those.
Hope that helps…
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Martin Turner
15 Nov 11 at 8:52 am
-
Isn’t that what we are doing?
While we certainly could have handled the communication better, we are being very upfront and forward about what we are doing, why we are doing it, and how we see things moving forward.
-
Not really. You guys aren’t saying what is obvious. Flash will be killed off. You guys say ‘mobile’ but developers are idiots not to realize that the desktop will follow. There is zero point in staying with Flash now other than waiting for HTML5 to catch up.
Chris
15 Nov 11 at 9:00 am
(gestalt -D.i.c.e) Digital interactive creative environment
Hi Mike I’ve just come across your blog and hope that you and the rest of the brains at Adobe can take into account some suggestions to add to help in the progress of digital interactive tools, it’s a bit of a wish list but I hope you can see potential in the direction of this request please read on…
Dear Adobe,
please can you make my Christmas extra special, I have a wish list which I believe you can deliver I’d ask Santa but I don’t think he understands code or UX like you do…
what I’m hoping is that you create a Digital interactive creative environment for Rich media and content which can help someone like me who is visionary who lacks code skills create websites apps and interfaces for devices.
I believe a visual programming interface could help designers better articulate, visualise and prototype and be a basis for developers to expand on the basics to take the vision further.
The focus of this tool or system is UX and task based. The look and feel of this wouldn’t have to be schematic based but it should be engineered with an atomic flexible schematic under the hood that is accessible for developers to expand.
The interface could accommodate common templates eg web site, mobile, console etc. as a basic starting point eg a for connecting to the web from different devices, using web standards as an initial approach but be flexible to use other objected orientated languages C++ etc
I’ve been using similar visual programming tools for years when creating digital content, so I know it’s possible so and I believe in it’s potential.
Adobe if you can organise the semantics of code into individual tasks so that tasks are atomic and find the best combinations and relationships between these tasks so the user then can connect these task to help create there vision,
by articulating code in this way it could then be possible to plug in other object oriented languages into the system.
The gestalt systems can incorporate the following:
1. selection of actions and behaviours
2. a physics engine
3. very basic 3d engine
4. timeline featues
5. video integration
6. and be able to interface for game creation
7. I like what you have done with Adobe inDesign so it could appear similar or at least take on some of its functions such as:
8. Master pages
9. procedural 2d primitives
10. corner options dynamic
11. paragraph styles
12. simple fx
13. indesign type engine ( with curved text wraps)
moving forward interactive digital content creation and rich media UI can be improved by a refocus on UX and keeping tasks vision based but also allowing transparency for those developers out there to take the vision to another level.
For Creative’s code is not a natural thing and why should it be, the best analogy I can use is Lego where its atomic and you can build whatever you want and give us creative’s a sense of gestalt helping us in creating interfaces that are pleasurable and greater than the sum of it’s parts.
I can expand on this if you wish to know more, I think I’ve covered the basics, In fact Gestalt is a good code name should you decide to make my Christmas come true I appreciate it may take a while to develop,
thanks for listening
& happy Christmas
// Joshua
–
Wow! Thank you for this input. We are thinking along similar lines in some of the areas you mentioned and I have forwarded your comments on to the teams.
One clarification, you mention “I’ve been using similar visual programming tools for years when creating digital content, so I know it’s possible so and I believe in it’s potential.”
Could you list those tools?
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
–
Joshua Lindo
15 Nov 11 at 9:30 am
This Apple-centric decision looks even more odd and shortsighted considering news like that: “The Android OS accounted for 52.5 percent of smartphone sales to end users in the third quarter of 2011, more than doubling its market share from the third quarter of 2010… Apple’s iOS market share suffered” – dropped to 15% (Gartner report Nov 15). Financial troubles? please, sell Flash platform and let someone to keep it alive.
–
Apple’s refusal to allow Flash Player on iOS was only one of 5 reasons given for our decision.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
–
George
15 Nov 11 at 10:03 am
I’m a one man show for more than 10 years… and with Flash it’s always been about adapting and specializing in all aspects so I guess this is just another challenge :-) The clients I have lost to all this HTML5 hype has given me some much needed time to focus on developing new skills.
Harbo
15 Nov 11 at 10:38 am
[...] now I’m sure everybody knows what Adobe said about the Flash Player for mobile and Flex last [...]
Possible scenarios for Flex’s future | Blue Callisto
15 Nov 11 at 3:45 pm
[...] Mike Chambers has also posted information explaining a bit more detail, and providing insight into the future of Flash and AIR. Key [...]
Andrew Trice » Blog Archive » No, Flex & Flash Are Not Dead
15 Nov 11 at 9:30 pm
[...] And honestly, if you haven’t read Mike Chambers post yet… you really should. [...]
Some Clarity around Flash Platform Changes | In Flagrante Delicto!
15 Nov 11 at 9:34 pm
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your work on Flash and for posting this – it helps to have some explanations on the “why” and to hear your thoughts on it.
I have been a Flash developer for many years (back to Director actually), and I teach it at the undergrad and graduate level for interactive design.
If I can make one plea for whatever HTML5 tool you and Adobe are working on – please give us non-programmers a timeline with drawing tools and actions!
Many Flash developers are also true programmers, but so many of us are much more on the design end of the spectrum.
Forget about fancy features for the moment – this is what makes Flash truly great in my mind:
Flash has been the one break-through tool that has allowed designers to accomplish incredible things that before only programmers could achieve.
So when I hear somewhat vague predictions about how Adobe will be working with HTML5, my only hope is that whatever gets developed fits that same need… To give visual designers the ability to create something over a timeline and apply actions to it.
True 3D would be nice too of course (as long as we are talking wishlist here), but really the visual GUI aspect I think is the most important for any new designer, and will be the essential feature of any new HTML5 tool.
If you took the time to read this – thanks!
– Kent
———–
“If I can make one plea for whatever HTML5 tool you and Adobe are working on – please give us non-programmers a timeline with drawing tools and actions!”
Kent, thanks for the comments.
This is exactly what Adobe Edge aims to provide:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/edge/
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Kent Golden
16 Nov 11 at 6:11 am
[...] to HTML5 development and various other Adobe projects. There were several reason that Adobe’s Mike Chambers gave, in a blog post on his personal site, as to why Adobe has shifted its [...]
Adobe Drops Mobile Flash Player Development To Focus On HTML5 | JASE Group Inbound Marketing & Advertising Agency
16 Nov 11 at 12:02 pm
[...] why. Those included that it was proprietary, unstable, and a resource hog, among other thingsAn Adobe engineer admitted this had much to do with the decision to abandon the mobile Flash Player. They grew to [...]
Adobe Kills Mobile Flash Development | Touch Reviews
16 Nov 11 at 2:41 pm
well, we should beleive with Mike as he is promising they will continue with AIR for devices.
So can we expect AIR for Windows mobile in coming few months?If that is not happening, then its a clear indication about Flash on bed…
Adobe highlighed Flash/AIR for TV but now even droping Flash Player for TV’s. As I know, more than 60% of the Flash TV apps are browser based, even though they support AIR. Can we expect new TV SDK’s(For Samsung, LG) which will support AIR 3 in coming months and also update with the upadting AIR versions (if at all AIR is updated by Adobe)?If adobe is not interested in Flash plugin, how do they expect the TV manufactures to invest in AIR, which is again a superset of Flash Player.
Also with the addition of Native extensions, Adobe might be freeing itself from supporting any other common features for mobile applications. With Native extensions, Adobe would expect developers to deal with any further platform specific requirement, rather than they creating the common API’s in AS3.0.
Adobe initiated Openscreen project with the intent of making Flash, the defacto standard for all screen app development and eventually ended up with preparing the Final Rights of Flash, their own creation.
Sangram
16 Nov 11 at 11:13 pm
Hi Mike,
We are developing Flash content for AIR devices like TV and Mobile. We want to know whether Flash contents developed for AIR will still be supported. To put it straight, is adobe planning to support AIR in TV Devices?
———
You can find more info on AIR for TV Here:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/articles/recent-updates.html
“Adobe is fully committed to enabling Flash based applications on digital home devices. These apps are packaged using AIR or web runtime technologies on TVs and other digital home devices that use the TV as a display.”
Mike Chambers
mesh@adobe.com
rakesh
17 Nov 11 at 4:23 am
An idea and may solution to our insecurities as developer of as3 that can make us fell better
1- adobe is part of html5 effort well Mike if the next version of flash generate as output html5 width embed styte ccs and jquery or other js o maybe as3 script compresed on gzip and deliver as next version of .swf type file.
ahh i think this is resolve all our problems and stop at one all Adobe Flash haters.
————
Yes, we (and the community) are doing a lot of work of Flash to HTML workflows (as well as new creative HTML tools).
Check out this video from John Nack:
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2011/11/check-out-flash-pro-generating-html5.html
That shows some work being done around exporting from Flash Pro to HTML. I believe Grant Skinner is also doing some similar type of work with EaselJS.com.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Roman Ferreiras
17 Nov 11 at 2:13 pm
Extending what i wrote before if swf is a XML compressed file and Adobe is part of HTML5 i think u can translate the functionality of flash in HTML5 and deliver the next version of swf in a reformatted markup that complain with HTML5 with embed styles and script and compressed. think this is equivalent to export flash to every think and not plugin need it.
i dream in something like this $(‘#any_element’).html($.getCompressedFile(‘helloword.swf’))
in place the large piece of code that actually is need it to place a swf in actual html
Roman Ferreiras
17 Nov 11 at 3:03 pm
Going to HTML5 is like flash 3 all over again with one big exception.., Flash gave us cross browser solutions.
Try coding solutions and you find CSS is mandatory and -moz , – webkit, -m , -o vendor prefixed browser crap.
All these Non-coding flash must die morons have no clue what a real fragmented mess HTML5 really is. I have had it.
SOMEONE NEEDS TO POINT THIS OUT on a front page article that identifies the proprietary black hole created by perceptions that do not match reality.
Jeff j
18 Nov 11 at 2:36 pm
Mike you said,
“The key point is this. If a Flash feature is successful, it will eventually be integrated into the browser, and developers and users will access it more and more via the browser and not Flash.”
And,
“While it will still be a while before HTML5 / CSS3 features have the same ubiquity as the Flash Player currently has, the trend is very clear. A lot of the things that you have done via Flash in the past, will increasingly be done via HTML5 and CSS3 directly in the browser.”
I disagree 100% on this point. (Begin rant) Just because it HTML/JS/CSS will eventually support a feature I can do now in Flash doesn’t mean I’m going to start using it to create content. I hate developing for HTML suite of technologies. It’s a mess. I have to write 3 to 4 different versions for each browser. Plus I have to use JavaScript scripting language which _no_ application developer would dare use except if they have to. JavaScript is a pile a @%56. You’re taking us to the dark ages and all because you want Apples approval. If you want to get on Apple’s devices that bad then write JS yourself in Dreamweaver. Don’t take resources away from Flash developers. HTML5 is not the solution. There’s no proof that Apple will play ball in that field anyway! They already disabled the browser upload support of HTML5 and they already promoted an HTML5 site that locked out all the other browsers. Their snotty temperamental brats of a company and your basing your company decisions on them??? Scarrry… Your starting to build your company on sand. Android has more market share if that’s what matters (half a million activations a day). You’re company jumps on every new bandwagon and fails in the ones where it’s strictly for money. The creative endeavors are where it wins. Even Apple positions creativity, user experience and quality above money. And that’s their strategy in making money (and it’s worked). Jobs has said the reason they don’t make a cheaper version of an iPhone is that developers would have to scale down their apps to support lesser technology. Jobs has said developers will not do it. And if you have no developers you have nothing. So they absolutely will not do it regardless of pressure from investors. Flash developers do not want to go to HTML5 because they’re losing a ton of advantages and for what, just to get a version on iOS, which is scaled down for at least 5 to 10 years?
I think it’s worth mentioning the clarity people and the media had a year ago as compared today (possibly due to lack of Adobe standing up for Flash),
“Apple is hyping HTML5 again, this time with a new website purporting to show open web development in action. But the company’s standards-following rivals have pointed out the Jobsian site is peddling nonsense.”
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/04/apple_html5_showcase_hype/
The rest of the article is just as accurate. This is no different than the “perceived loss” the car salesmen describes of how horrible it will be if you don’t buy his car. I’ll be ok if my app is not on iOS (and if I do want to I can create an HTML5 version or better yet point them to my app on the app store).
Judah
19 Nov 11 at 1:41 pm
Hi Mike
“Yes, we (and the community) are doing a lot of work of Flash to HTML workflows (as well as new creative HTML tools).
Check out this video from John Nack:
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2011/11/check-out-flash-pro-generating-html5.html
That shows some work being done around exporting from Flash Pro to HTML. I believe Grant Skinner is also doing some similar type of work with EaselJS.com.”
Can you please run this test on any Flash mobile capable device:
http://flaemo.com/blog/?page_id=2
And tell us you can also speed up the HTML5 a little bit more? Nope is out of your control, Flash was. And was way faster than the ‘future’ solution you proposing to us.
Did you just fail to make Stage3D working or what went wrong? Clearly the performance wasn’t the reason!
devu
19 Nov 11 at 11:07 pm
You know, when I started teaching flash to high school students, we had a lot of discussions about the internet in general… why the web was built around small html pages, simple tags, dial-up speeds, limitations of those days.
Now with the speed we have, the applications that we can produce using this platform… I still do not understand why single page by page webs are created. It’s inefficient, cumbersome, non-uniform amongst browsers, and something that I thought would have been changed by now.
This platform of create once, see the same experience on every device is of common sense, and with our technology/speed of today, downloading small packages of a site seems like a no brainer instead of the maze of files produced to display html/javascript/css pages.
I understand dropping the player implimentation for all the mobile browsers, it’s a nightmare. AIR is the biggest thing coming out since the flash player when it started. Adobe needs to get the word out about it. It still feels like it’s stuck in the labs.
1. Adobe keeps continuing strong new ground breaking support in the desktop arena… not just games! RIA’s for the enterprise coming out of Flash/Flex is important.
2. Adobe, good decision to drop the player from mobile browsers! but built better integration for developers to kick out AIR apps for those platforms, get them on their finiky markets, and scripts to allow users to download alternate content when visiting a site using flash.
3. don’t loose the vision that building and publishing once and viewing everywhere is the key. The open screen project for example! commit!
maybe the player needs to be open sourced? browsers may fully commit to integrating it? I feel like they are always playing catch-up… now they have video in html5! cool.
josh
26 Nov 11 at 1:27 pm
“We have added support for captive AIR runtimes for AIR applications, which is essentially a self contained app / pacage.”
I tried AIR, however I wasn’t able to produce a single standalone .exe/.app
My idea would be to have like an .exe with custom icon and all, that when clicked it would just start the application right away. No installation, no dialogs, no additional runtimes to download. The application could also silently “extract” and store the swf/xml/META-INF/etc and all that, in a randomly hashed folder inside the operating system’s TEMP directory.
If the developer wishes to create an installer he could just use a program like NSIS. Also about the certificate notification, let the OS or the target marketplace take care of that. We already have enough notifications from the OS about downloaded & unsigned files.
era
26 Nov 11 at 11:33 pm
ActionScript Workers / Concurrency APIs … yeheeeeeeee If this is about Milti threading and Threads and Background worker. then it is going to be fun… Also Include Driver class to connect to different databases or hardware input devices like joystick. Yes i love Adobe AS3, Flash.
shammi
2 Dec 11 at 4:53 am
I just read that Adobe will discontinue Flash Catalyst and the Design View in Flash builder ?
Is that TRUE ?
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4085187#4085187
If so that would be a BIG step backwards
Exactly the Catalyst/FlashBuilder workflow was why we have choosen the Flex technologie.
Today there is no useful alternative for visual layout out there :/
daslicht
20 Dec 11 at 12:05 pm
Hi Mike,
A bit late to reply as I tend to take all this kind of stuff in stride, but thanks for the clear explanation.
I don’t agree with the move, even from adobe’s own self interest, as I believe that the iphone ipad effect is short term and can be made moreso. I feel most badly for entire platforms that were advertising their use of flash in the browser as a competitive advantage and I have to say as an ipad owner that I won’t buy another, and not because I’m a flash developer. It’s because I like art and most art sites on the web use flash at some point.
Anyway that’s under the bridge, but my main pointis that if adobe were to put the flash player source on apache as well, then it would be up to the hardware manufacturors to decide what to do, and based on blackberry’s thinking which I think was both smart and which this announcement screwed over more than any other company, such a move would enable the continuation of android browsers to utilize what is currently a great runtime, compete with the ipad and iphone on that basis and provide a way for web standards to utilize as much as possible with the binary capabilities of flash.
In truth the blackberry thinking is right. If all you need to do is support the air runtime, you have all you need for a good device operating system.
So all Adobe would need to do is donate the source code, licence and controll of the CURRENT version of the flash player to apache as well and it would be a win win for both flash content and html5 content.
Open source developers would come out of the woods to help out and do things like make an html5 canvas tag component for compatability with ie6.
Device manufacturors would colaborate on the shared issues in implementing a 4core flash player and get plenty of free work out of the previous work that’s already been done.
I also think that if adobe were to donate the code of flash media server as a part of the effort and make it a part of the lamp stack, a small fraction of adobe’s income that it gets from FMS could be recouped with a whole new class of apps that rely on flash and flex and which is not currently even speced under html5.
The first move is a no brainer. The second might be a huge benefit for the company long term as well.
Adobe has more invested in this than us. We can learn to use the html5 audio tag in a day. But if you have any pull at all with the bigwigs, see if you can get them to put the player and media server under apache as well and then have adobe just watch and take advantage of the huge explosion of advancement that would occur. Flash will always sell as an animation tool, and nobody can compete with flash builder now for an IDE, so let the explosion happen for free and reap some short term rewards while encouraging love with your users and profitability for ALL.
For 10 years the FMS and flash player capabilities have sat on a shelf, making no money. Unleash them for market dominance! Your ui tools are already in place to monetize!
Thanks for listening.
-Cort
Cortlandt Winters
27 Dec 11 at 8:25 pm
Hi Mike, thanks for your post. It’s really helpful.
I think the way Adobe announced the drop for supporting flash plugin in mobiles was awful.
I have a question on there… Was it possible to Adobe to reach an agreement with Opera to provide flash plugin only for their mini browser? could it require less resources than the current strategy?
I think the press cost has been really high. A lot of people thinks it’s the end on flash.
Another suggestion, why don’t you rename AIR to use something like Flash Standalone Player, or Flash App Player? That would be help to understand the current tools.
Paco Zarate
31 Dec 11 at 12:16 pm
@ Mike, you can go on and on what is or not is true, but you killed flash as a web solution, that’s all, I don’t know why you still trying to sell that Idea of developing something in flash when an image worth more than a thousand words:
http://beta.theexpressiveweb.com/#!/css3-gradients
If you scroll down a see “Related Adobe Technologies” guess who is missing.
Years of train myself into As3 to the level of do whatever I have in my mind now worst like a 3 dollars bill, NOTHING! Yeah I’m going to learn HTML5 cause I don’t want to be the last one when the door shuts down, but I really don’t know if I have the time to do it and get any closer results in my daily basis projects. And that about the bright side of your opportunity to lear something new is like to tell a baseball player, yeah man, go ahead and learn soccer, in the end you are an atletle despiting the detail that you are on your fortys.
Why Android is destroying IWhatEver? Because on just one feature, yes flash. You had that on your side (OUR SIDE) and you just flushed it away. Woa. And you spec from me to get another Adobe Program to built my career?. Fool me ones…
I’ve lost 10 year of my life devoting to your technology, Am I going to trust you and spend another 5 or 10 years master another Adobe’s fiasco?. NO sir. life is short, and if you tell me that HTML5 is the way to fallow why am I going to develop a WebSite on HTML5 ,and on Flash, and make an App in Air, not sir, bye bye Adobe as a web solution, call it by its name, is easy.
It tires me just by the thinking of train myself from zero. Thanks, you took the best choice, instead of maintain you HUGE developer base, and telling the whole world FLASH is PART Of THE FUTURE SOMEHOW, and if you want a nowdays real example of your Beautiful Flash Web deploying in a Mobile, go ahead a Buy a Marvelous ANDROID, or if you don’t want to see a ***** go ahead a Buy an IPHONE. But no, you determine your strategy on some issues like performance, when the Mobile market is a toodler but growing exponentially, and by the time when HTML5 would be rock solid, about 8 years from now, could you imagine how savage the mobiles will be?, and can you picture how great it will be the performance of Flash Content? Not, nobody will see it because you shoot flash in the head. And please, don’t come to me with that: this is for this and this is for that (niches) because I’ve lost a 12k project when they ask me for Mobile present and I tell them no, cause they don’t understand why the site that they see in their Desktop has to be double price because I have to buiit it as an App and its HTML5 version.
Congratulations, you just shoot down an AMAZING product (That could it be the Web of the future) and the shotgun blast just scared the whole community away. You can tell me: 1.Animations HTML5, WebApps: Air, and Games: Flash, well I just want to do a WebPage that works in Mobiles, so there is just one way to take. Good Luck, and farewell, Flash was part of the future, but you decided to was too difficult to deal with mobile devises, woa, I just can’t believe this., when Mobiles will be in a matter of 2 years more than accurate to delivery flash content properly as Android prove that Steve Jobs was just after one thing: His money selling apps.
I was in love of being an Adobe person, now I fell like I’m a totally jerk for put my eggs in your basket that you just desided to drop down to the ground shattering my carrer in the way. Now I have to begin once again, but belive me, Im not going to teach my Self Edge just to see that in Cs7 there is no Edge and Now is the New Adobe WhatSoever Solution.
From love to hate there is a simple step. And you will see it in no time when you tried to cash out CS6. Good look with that and with your stocks.
Diego
24 Mar 12 at 9:56 am