Mike Chambers

On changes at Adobe

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1. Will these changes impact the time frame of bringing Flash 10 to Android and Windows Mobile?

   

   Ben

   4 Dec 08 at 6:15 pm
2. Thanks Mike. The merging of the MDBU under Platform was inevitable, although we didn’t see it coming under these circumstances. That being said, I believe that for those of us in the mobile world, this will ultimately a great change and one that brings mobile up to “first-class citizen” status within the Platform group. Just looking at the priority list, I can already see that this is happening. Looking forward to 2009. Cheers.

   

   Dale Rankine

   4 Dec 08 at 6:16 pm
3. Thanks for the info. The community was/is indeed shocked by the news.

   Despite the losses, and the impact they have on everyone – I too am excited about the things that Adobe is working on.

   Here’s to hoping 2009 brings an upturn in business.

   

   William Steiner

   4 Dec 08 at 6:16 pm
4. @Ben

   –
   Will these changes impact the time frame of bringing Flash 10 to Android and Windows Mobile?
   –

   Nope, at least not negatively.

   mike chambers

   mesh@adobe.com

   

   mikechambers

   4 Dec 08 at 6:19 pm
5. Thanks for your frankness. The community loves you guys – so keep at it.

   

   stacey

   4 Dec 08 at 6:20 pm
6. Thanks for the post–perhaps the most information I’ve heard. I don’t get how CS4 could really be the reason as it’s only been out for a month or so… but whatever, times is tough.

   Speaking of seeds–what’s the deal with that seed money mentioned at MAX in Las Vegas? As I recall it was like 100 million!

   I don’t mean to question everything Adobe does… probably reducing the workforce makes sense. Is there any public comment on how the reduction was applied? Was it lottery or based on performance or revenue growth. I mainly ask not to question any particular firing but a) I wonder if those gone were a net gain or loss for the company and b) how certain areas are considered even if they don’t bring any immediate money… say Flash Player which we’d agree is a core thing… but doesn’t make any direct money. MAX was great, but I heard a million times how it doesn’t make money–not sure how that sits with shareholders.

   Thanks!

   

   Phillip Kerman

   4 Dec 08 at 6:31 pm
7. Thank you for sharing your perspectives, Mike. This is a blow, but it has been softened by willingness to be open with the community. That attitude is very much appreciated.

   Keep up the good work!

   

   Jen

   4 Dec 08 at 6:34 pm
8. Curious how

   “Reduce expenses.” and “Extend community help programs and services.” will inter relate

   

   John Wilker

   4 Dec 08 at 6:42 pm
9. Thanks for posting, Mike.

   

   Scott Janousek

   4 Dec 08 at 6:44 pm
10. Hey Mike,

    Having spent more than 10 years on the periphery and even occasionally inside of Macrodobe, I really appreciate the openness and willingness to communicate with the outside world. It’s reassuring and refreshing to have personal communications like this. Best of luck to everyone over there.

    

    Luke Bayes

    4 Dec 08 at 6:59 pm
11. Thanks for the view from the inside Mike. Man, this brings back memories – having been involved with merger layoffs when Macromind/Paracomp merged and then later with AuthorWare. Think of this as a period of Creative Destruction. When you have to make the hard choices, it can force some things into better focus.

    Re: Phillip’s comments about the profitability of MAX – having been involved with many of the Macromind/Macromedia UCONs of the past, I would argue that they are necessary because of the long tail good will and business generation for the aftermarket / community that they generate. Short term profitability can’t be the driver with that event. That being said, if I hadn’t been nasal-deep in preparing our alpha release, I would have gladly attended – even at full boogie cost.

    

    Terry R. Schussler

    4 Dec 08 at 7:14 pm
12. This was a bit of a shock on the surface of the news, but in looking at the economic stress overall it was a matter of time.

    That being said, Mike, I can’t thank you enough for being so open (and Adobe in general) to the community that uses, supports and betters the solutions you guys develop.

    

    Matthew Keefe

    4 Dec 08 at 7:29 pm
13. Sorry to hear you bad luck Mike. Hang in there man, a smart guy like you will be back on his feet soon.

    And thanks for all you have done for the flash community, best of luck.

    

    Josh Chernoff

    4 Dec 08 at 8:45 pm
14. @Josh

    Thanks for the thought, but just to be clear, Im still with Adobe.

    mike chambers

    mesh@adobe.com

    

    mikechambers

    4 Dec 08 at 8:50 pm
15. [...] [Update: an upbeat explanation by Mike Chambers] [...]

    

    dispatchEvent()™ » Blog Archive » Adobe to lay off 600 employees

    4 Dec 08 at 9:42 pm
16. Mike,

    Thanks indeed for posting and being open about this. It’s much appreciated.
    I do hope everything works out the best for everybody.

    

    Wim Vanhenden

    5 Dec 08 at 2:03 am
17. [...] today Mike Chambers posted on the changes at Adobe. Included is the official revised forcast for the company. It is lowered [...]

    

    Adobe Corporate Cutbacks :: Marc Van Norden

    5 Dec 08 at 2:09 am
18. Thanks Mike for this really usefull post. Anyway I’m still very sad for the people left behind and my thoughts are with them.

    It was a real shock for me especially because the announcement has been made on the last day of MAX Europe which leaves really a bitter taste.

    Thanks again Mike and all past and present Adobians for being so nice with the Community!

    

    Cyril Hanquez

    5 Dec 08 at 2:29 am
19. I’m not surprised that a big company does cuts these days. And probably it won’t be so difficult to identify an eventual 7% which under performed. I’m much more surprised for the renounce from Adobe to attend the Mac World Expo, and probably the not change of the crazy prices outside US, considering they are not selling CS4 as expected.

    

    christian

    5 Dec 08 at 2:44 am
20. Does this have any effect on Director?

    

    Iain

    5 Dec 08 at 3:06 am
21. [...] http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/2008/12/04/on-changes-at-adobe/ [...]

    

    Adobe job cuts and the community | Peter Elst

    5 Dec 08 at 6:17 am
22. In regards to “Extend community help programs and services”, I (as a blogger, UGM, free trainer, conferece planner) am here to do what I can. If there are any explicit action items there, share ‘em so we can get crackin’.

    

    Tom Ortega

    5 Dec 08 at 7:14 am
23. [...] > On changes at Adobe at Mike Chambers [...]

    

    localToGlobal » Blog Archive » news review -> 49th week of 2008

    5 Dec 08 at 8:25 am
24. Thanks for sharing the details with us Mike, and to those that will be moving on from Adobe, thank you for your inspiration and hard work. I think it now becomes our charge, even more so than before, as a community of designers and developers to push our ideas and executions to the next level. If we can all raise the bar in some way, we can help to drive quality and demand for our services which will ‘trickle up’ to Adobe and their awesome teams!

    I understand that it’s difficult to do, but we all have to look at these tough financial times as an opportunity for growth – within ourselves, our organizations, our communities, our clients. That’s how some of us pushed through the first bubble collapse. I know a lot of close friends that got out of the game in the late 90’s never to look back. For those of us that stayed, we pushed hard to learn new techniques, not except failure, and strengthen our chops. We can do it again now.

    We, as a community, have a symbiotic relationship with Adobe and their technologies. If we can both continue to push each other in our solutions, we can get through the mess. Mike, let us know if there are any specifics that we can be working toward to keep the wheels spinning.

    Thanks again for your openness Mike. Onward and upward!

    - Erik

    

    Erik Loehfelm

    5 Dec 08 at 8:48 am
25. @Phillip Kerman
    –
    I don’t get how CS4 could really be the reason as it’s only been out for a month or so… but whatever, times is tough
    –

    Sales were lower than expected, and we have revised downward our future expectations for sales (based on the current economic situation). i.e. its not just current sales, but a change in expectations for future sales.

    –
    say Flash Player which we’d agree is a core thing… but doesn’t make any direct money.
    –

    Actually, Flash Player does generate a significant amount of revenue (both directly and indirectly).

    We are cutting back in some areas, but aggressively investing in a few areas, such as the Flash Platform, that we consider strategic.

    mike chambers

    mesh@adobe.com

    

    mikechambers

    5 Dec 08 at 9:47 am
26. [...] Here is Mike Chambers’ thoughts on the [...]

    

    NateJC.com - Flash & ActionScript 3 info, source, & experiments » Blog Archive » Adobe laying off 600 employees, including Mike Downey

    5 Dec 08 at 10:59 am
27. [...] On changes at Adobe at Mike ChambersOn Adobe's strategic goals, in the Platform group at least, post laying off 600 people. Also, an excellent, genuine use of blogging to be a more open company rather than not. [...]

    

    People Over Process » Links for December 4th through December 5th

    5 Dec 08 at 11:57 am
28. sorry if this distracts from the point at hand, but I thought with “open screens” you got rid of ALL player licensing rules. So… how does it make any money directly? I agree it’s an indirect benefit… similar to the benefit of having everyone have AIR installed.

    

    Phillip Kerman

    5 Dec 08 at 12:12 pm
29. A discussion at Adobe headquarters:
    -The crisis is upon us, what should we do!?
    -CS4 sales in Europe were not so great, maybe we should drop the price…you know…like the car industry does ?!
    -Hmm, can’t we just lay off some devs?!

    

    Ncu

    5 Dec 08 at 1:24 pm
30. Also, Adobe makes DIRECT money from the Flash Player when they sell it for example to device manufacturers (phones, TV’s ,mp3 players, etc… ).

    

    Ncu

    5 Dec 08 at 1:27 pm
31. @phillip

    –
    sorry if this distracts from the point at hand, but I thought with “open screens” you got rid of ALL player licensing rules. So… how does it make any money directly?
    –

    Yes. This is off topic for the post.

    You can probably find more specific details in any of the financial analysts meetings / reports.

    mike chambers

    mesh@adobe.com

    

    mikechambers

    5 Dec 08 at 1:30 pm
32. I’m a Flex developer who is entirely motivated by pushing the limits of what technology can do. I’m worried that the easiest department for most companies to cut is R&D, since that would have the least impact on a company’s ability to survive in the short-term. Without R&D, there will be nothing internally pushing companies to buy new Adobe tools.

    Is there anything Adobe can do to help innovators create a more successful business case to keep progressing with next-generation (Flash 10/Flex 4/Catalyst) development?

    

    Harry Garland

    5 Dec 08 at 1:37 pm
33. @Harry

    As I mentioned in my post:

    “Continue to drive innovation with some key seed project”

    We are continuing the invest in R & D and research.

    As far as Flash, Flex and Flash Catalyst, we are heavily focused on this (as mentioned in the post).

    You can see what we are doing with Flex 4 today. More info here:

    http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/2008/08/27/everything-there-is-to-know-about-flex-4-gumbo/

    mike chambers

    mesh@adobe.com

    

    mikechambers

    5 Dec 08 at 1:52 pm
34. I have been using Illustrator since version ‘88 and Photoshop since version 2.0. Last week I spent some money to upgrade my CS3 Production suite to the CS4 Master collection because these tools are core to what I do. What bites my butt is the fact that many designers and developers around me (who I know personally) download cracks and key generators so they can use the products and not have to buy them. These are people who also have Adobe written into their DNA, that’s how much they rely on your tools. They should consider the 600 people at Adobe who lost their job this week as they use their ill-gotten software.

    

    Randy Troppmann

    5 Dec 08 at 11:51 pm
35. Well said Randy, but Adobe should also consider that maybe European customer might not be happy to pay double of what their colleagues in US do. If someone tries to rob you, why shouldn’t you do the same?

    

    christian

    6 Dec 08 at 12:34 am
36. First of all it is very sad that this is happening. I have a friend at Adobe, who was luckily saved from this lay off cut.

    I read some discussions about how bad of a decision it was of the CEO of Adobe and such, however he does not lay off 600 people for the fun of it, or just to keep shareholders happy. He does what he thinks is the best for the company, that’s his main task. I think is he pretty much one of the best to decide whats good for the company or not. It’s like with football, there are ten thousands of coaches in the stadium that all know it better then the loosing coach. In Holland there is a saying “The best sailors are on shore”.

    I think Adobe is a great company and CEO does the best possible. It is just the sad global financial crisis that is effecting almost everybody.

    People now get fired in a lot of companies, but it will stabilize and there will be new opportunities for other (new and young) companies to work with skilled former human resources of Adobe and other companies that had to lay off the people.

    Every downside has an upside.

    

    Harry van der Veen

    6 Dec 08 at 3:19 am
37. Personally, I am not surprised that CS4 is not selling that well. What I hear around me is that it is much too soon after CS3. If you compare it to the time between earlier releases.
    At our company, which is not the smallest (1000 – 5000 users), the first designers received CS3 a few months ago and not even everybody only the people who had their PC reinstalled.
    Also I heard that the changes are not that big, though I have no personal experience with it.

    Of course I wish all of you the best, we have been going from one reorganisation into the next one here so I know it is not always the best for the atmosphere.

    

    Rogier

    6 Dec 08 at 7:39 am
38. Christian,

    If someone tries to rob / harm you in any way, I can think of many reasons why the trying to rob/harm them back is a bad idea.

    For example, someone trips you in a parking lot. Do you walk away and continue life? Or get in a fight, spend a month in the hospital and a year in jail?

    

    Jeffry Houser

    6 Dec 08 at 7:43 am
39. Mike,
    Thank you for posting this information. I am very sorry to hear that Adobe had the need to do this.

    @Randy, @Jeffrey,
    Perhaps Adobe needs to man up to the fact that the amount they charge for their software is more than the typical “Adobe-blooded” person can take. I myself am still running CS2 and Studio 8 at home because I cannot afford to update. I only have these 2 suites thanks to the student discount. I graduated a couple of years ago, but, even looking at the student discount now, it is more than I could afford to pay, even if I was in school. I don’t condone piracy in any way, but I understand that it is a necessary thing for many people to do when faced with a software bill so steep, and the need to continue working and advancing. Luckily I work for a company that is able to give me the most current tools, otherwise I might have been forced to go the piracy route myself, just to keep up.

    My father was a salesman. He very often took the approach of “lower price, more sales” and made much better money that way. If I could purchase the CS4 Master Collection for approx. $500 new, with no upgrade, and upgrade a suite for <$200, I would update in a heartbeat, the second the new suite is released. I wager that I am not alone in that department. If that were the case, perhaps this layoff would not have been necessary, as the software would be affordable for the typical independent developer, not just for corporations that have a lot of money.

    @christian,

    Understandably, European customers SHOULD be furious that they have to pay so much more than US customers. The added cost of shipping overseas does not warrant that large of a cost increase. These are mis-steps that Adobe has taken, and 600 of their employees have paid the price for it. Perhaps Adobe will turn a new leaf, and allow the costs to be attainable for the normal person.

    All the same, I highly disagree with your “if someone tries to rob you” statement. Stealing is not a valid pursuit, even if someone steals from you. It is still up to you to hold to a certain moral standard. If you steal from someone who is trying to steal from you, that lowers you to their level. Instead, you should rise above it. Perhaps by communicating with Adobe, by petitioning about the prices. I’m sure if they thought they would sell 200,000 more copies of their software, if they lowered the price 60%, they would probably consider it. Less profit per copy sold can still equal a lot of profit when you sell that many more copies.

    

    Ross

    6 Dec 08 at 8:49 am
40. Please keeps comments on topic for the post. I will consider moderation to keep things on topic.

    mike chambers

    mesh@adobe.com

    

    mike chambers

    6 Dec 08 at 10:42 am
41. Hi Mike,

    It was interesting that you mentioned you see Adobe working towards “Flash Player 10 and ActionScript 3 on devices”. The deprecation of the Flash Player 9 SDK in favor of Flash Lite gave me a completely different impression; is it no longer the case that Adobe is pushing Flash Lite for mobile devices?

    

    Nathan de Vries

    7 Dec 08 at 4:27 am
42. Mike, I am so glad you are still with Adobe. I can’t imagine the Flash world without you.

    Keep going strong Mike!

    

    Natasha

    7 Dec 08 at 8:22 am
43. - Prices -
    Maybe I used the wrong terms, but you can agree with me that if you think the price is not fair, you are more tempted on finding less legal alternatives, a la Robin Hood. Personally I don’t need to get at the same level to who tries to rob me, but not everyone is like me or lucky as me.

    - Jobs -
    Sure, everyone is firing now, my company too. But I cannot agree with who is certain that it is not to make the shareholders happy. Unfortunately there are share market needs, especially when everything goes down, and short terms gratifications is in general the favourite answer. Be aware of companies in the stock market then ;)

    

    christian

    7 Dec 08 at 11:50 am
44. Thanks for this post Mike. Like Phillip Kerman, I applaud Adobe for the transparency of this change, going so far as to release notes on an internal restructuring meeting.

    As for some of the CS4 comments, I’ve also not been pleased at Adobe in this regard, but I think it’s just mean spirited to assume and claim that 600 people lost their jobs because Adobe didn’t sell enough copies of their software as a direct result of CS4 pricing. I am sure that enters into the equation, but the economic indicators and stock prices and a ton of other factors are the most likely reason for this decision.

    I just wanted to say that feel for you guys in this moment of change. Seeing friends leave is never an easy thing to do, less so for the people who have been given pink slips. May this change bring you even closer to your community of designers and developers that together we may create some truly amazing things in 2009.

    

    Joeflash

    8 Dec 08 at 3:01 pm
45. Sorry to hear about this.

    

    Michael Vestergaard

    12 Dec 08 at 7:04 am
46. First, you take flash and make it as complicated as java, so newbies have no reason to leave f8.Them, you also make it go to the wonderland of open source,so advanced users dont need flash or flex at all.Them,it doesnt sells anymore.Surprize surprize!!!
    If i was the CEO i would fire ALL of you.

    

    Cagnar

    20 Dec 08 at 2:59 am
47. Sad news but these are the bitter realities of our economic system.

    

    Rich Apps Consulting

    26 Dec 08 at 7:26 am
48. If you want flash cs4 to sell, then make it better…

    1. The ide should have the ability to import 3d models directly and manipulate them in realtime for animations without having to use papervision or code your own engine. This would have attracted a ton of animators and animation studios. It is hard to justify buying an upgrade when your organization already has workarounds to achieve what you offered.

    2. Make Code editing and project organization easy. There are free Code editors like flash develop that outperform Flash own native editor, a part of corporately developed IDE, by Miles; this, should not be the case. And the Gskinner application, although a good start, is a joke in contrast to stage the IDE should be at.

    3.(really 3 and 4) Adding custom Html Templates and air customization should be apart of the publish settings dialog. Why can’t I just make my own templates or select all the options that I want, instead of one or the other, for template generation? Why are there no advanced air customizations possible in the publish settings dialog, when that is where everyone is supposed to look for everything from .mov to jpg to projectors? Ease of use and consistency please; I beg it of you.

    4. Why can’t you just export a flash animation to divx or multiple video formats, instead of just MOV? Why can’t I publish my animations as an FLV directly?

    All of these features would make it easier for studios to justify the cost.

    

    Anthony

    11 Jan 09 at 2:45 pm
49. Mike,

    I may be late but I am sorry to hear this. I just got back from the Adobe Refresh event in Brisbane today and, working with Adobe products, I feel more than ever like Adobe and the Flash Platform are and will continue to be the right horse to back. I hope this doesn’t get any worse.

    

    Dale J Williams

    10 Feb 09 at 3:54 am
50. This is great news!!! Fewer Adobe programmers means fewer fucking piece of shit Adobe products. Hey fuckos, why do I need an ActiveX control to install Adobe Reader? Wouldn’t need the fucking piece of shit in the first place if there weren’t so many morons in the world generating PDF documents that could be just html or jpgs. DIE FUCKING ADOBE. YOU FUCKING SUCK.

    

    Jack Simmons

    10 Feb 09 at 3:57 am
51. I believe it isn’t the price problem for the products. It’s a fact that they are expensive, but a few years ago they were also expensive and people buy them.

    We are facing at the moment one huge global economical crisis, that make people not to invest.

    Adobe is facing problems but all the other companies are. The big one’s and the smallest.

    2009 and 2010 will be in my opinion the worst years maybe from the last 30-40 years. Economically speaking…

    Let’s see what else will happen till the end of the year.

    

    MDiogo

    19 Feb 09 at 4:28 am
52. Mike,

    Sorry to be so late to the game here, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

    1) Re price, I think the $200 upgrade price for Flash Pro is more than fair, since the improvements are significant (I’d pay $200 for FileReference.save() alone!) On the other hand, I don’t know that I’d shell out $600 or more to upgrade the entire suite. In all honesty, the improvements to Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. just aren’t that earthshaking to me, certainly in comparison with the groundbreaking CS3. So I will be upgrading to Flash CS4 both at work and at home, but I won’t upgrade the other products.

    2) I think you guys have a lot of potential with Captivate. I wouldn’t neglect the e-learning market, particularly at a time when companies are slashing travel costs. My company, for example, is looking to expand its e-learning offerings. However, we don’t have enough Flash developers (uh, that’d be me) to go around and, frankly, dedicated Web-training companies can be pricey. Captivate is the perfect tool for the corporate trainer without programming experience. I think you have a real winner with that tool, particularly if you refine it a bit more and market the heck out of it.

    3) Flash media server, etc. — I think, again, that this can be a hot product when companies are cutting back on travel. The challenge is to make these accessible enough for non-programmers to use.

    4) iPhone — I don’t think you guys are the hangup on this one. Nonetheless, I really wish Adobe could patch things up with Apple. As a long-time Mac AND Adobe enthusiast, I feel a bit like my parents are going through a messy divorce. I wish that you two companies could work together again…like in the old days of the 90s. I know, I don’t think Adobe is really at fault here, but just wishing.

    Thanks for all that you guys on the Flash team do. Your product is terrific — actually, more than terrific. In my opinion, there has never been a Flash upgrade that was not worthwhile, and I have been using your product since Flash 5.

    

    Lance

    20 May 09 at 5:32 pm

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