Microsoft trying to derail ECMAScript 4?
More information here, here and here.
ECMAScript 4 is the next version of ECMAScript, of which both JavaScript and ActionScript are based upon.
code = joy
More information here, here and here.
ECMAScript 4 is the next version of ECMAScript, of which both JavaScript and ActionScript are based upon.
[...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptMore information here, here and here. ECMAScript 4 is the next version of ECMAScript, of which both JavaScript and ActionScript are based upon. [...]
My Ghillie » Microsoft trying to derail ECMAScript 4?
1 Nov 07 at 8:21 am
Note Chris’s response:
http://blogs.msdn.com/cwilso/archive/2007/10/31/what-i-think-about-es4.aspx
“..Sadly, this seems to be turning into an “ES4: yes or no” battle. That’s unfortunate, because I don’t think anyone should settle into the trenches, and I don’t think the other Microsoft guys ever intended to say “everything about ES4 is bad”. It’s been pointed out that we haven’t made an alternate proposal – well, I’d kinda hoped we could work it out together. “Open to input” should be the way of the web, should it not? I think it’s a shame that dissenting opinion has been hidden from view, and not publicized; certainly, I think the Microsoft response hasn’t been very audible, but that’s partly because we’ve been trying to figure out if it’s just us – but of course, us trying to understand what other people think of the proposal in detail has also generated some apparent conspiracy-theorism…”
All we are saying is, surely we can all do better.. Adobe included. :)
I mean if JavaScript were to get more powerful and better overall, where would that leave Flash? ;)
-
Scott Barnes
RIA Evangelist
Microsoft.
Scott Barnes
2 Nov 07 at 5:54 pm
>I think it’s a shame that dissenting opinion has been hidden from view, and not publicized;
Wow. Way to try to rewrite history. The ECMA committee is an open committee (and has been working for years on this draft). Microsoft has been a part of that, but has not raised any objections until now.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
2 Nov 07 at 10:27 pm
Here is another write up of the situation:
http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2007/11/02/ars-technica-mozilla-the-bad-guys-fighting-microsoft-the-good-guys
–
The problem, apparently, is that Microsoft refuses to voice specific technical concerns, and rather resorts to undermining the process, stalling and using PR campaigns to gather support against it.
–
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
2 Nov 07 at 10:30 pm
This IE Teams Battle of course, but after spending some time with Chris, he does have a lot of passion around this space. In that it’s not about stalling it’s simply about looking for a more grander approach.
You guys made a decision to opt from AS 1.0 to changing the game ever so slightly with AS 2.0 and AS 3.0 (something which was both risky and gratifying). Yet, what impacts did that have with your audience and so on – now amplify that by a much bigger ground swell (- i won’t get into the battle royal about Macromedia’s past, but you know where the lows and highs lie around that space).
JavaScript is a delicate conversation period and when you look to change it in any way, why not do so in a much grander plan. Instead of looking to Microsoft for “why not”… “why..” “why this approach and not others” is more the question I’m curious about.
Anyway, Microsoft folks aren’t doing it because they are bored and thought “..gee its been a while since we annoyed the world, what could we do today.. oh i know… dive on the ECMA grenade..” – we / you are all smarter than to bottle it up as some conspiracy theory to halt the evolution of the web so we can have a clear runway to our own technology.
At times I wonder..
- Scott (Microsoft).
Scott Barnes
4 Nov 07 at 4:28 am
“I mean if JavaScript were to get more powerful and better overall, where would that leave Flash? ;)
-
Scott Barnes
RIA Evangelist
Microsoft.”
Isn’t it funny to see that any arrogant and lame comments about Flash are coming from Microsoft representatives?
Mr Barnes… as a Microsoft RIA Evangelist, I am sure you have a hard time to persue people that Silverlight is so much better than Flash.
For me, Silverlight is the next Zune… Zune patheticly failed to compete with iPod, Silverlight will sink the same way. Time to find another job Mr Barnes?
Microsoft has no interest to see ECMAScript 4 coming up as it will create a new competitor to Silverlight for creating RIA. That’s the main problem for you guys at Microsoft.
Finally…That part made me laugh… sorry :D
“In that it’s not about stalling it’s simply about looking for a more grander approach.”
Does it mean we will have to wait something like 4 or more years to see proposing something “grander” such as XP to Vista?
I always worry when Microsoft starts to think “grander”… by experience…
Have a pleasant day.
Bazard
5 Nov 07 at 1:33 am
I think Adobe should back ECMAScript 4 and push of it’s speedy delivery.
Raymond
5 Nov 07 at 6:18 pm
fyi
Updated info:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/archives/2007/11/es4_news_and_opinion.html
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
mikechambers
6 Nov 07 at 3:18 am
Bazard:
A lot of emotion in that post hehe. It wasn’t an attack on Flash but more to the point that due to AJAX being all so ever popular these days, JavaScript gaining new powers may very well chip away at Flash’s future potential – may being an subjective word i guess.
Anyway, I didn’t read most of your ranting as it’s emotionally charged and let’s agree to disagree on this one ;)
Appreciate your feedback though and thank you for prefixing it with “Mr” ;)
-
Scott
Scott Barnes
9 Nov 07 at 8:51 pm
Having looked at the proposal, the only thing missing that would help me in my day to day Actionscript work is the lack of enum.
If I were a Microsoft stockholder I would worry about the company’s behaviour over this matter making them look weak. If Microsoft had signed off on on ECMA 4 it would have been a sign of strength and of confidence in their technologies. As it stands, they look petrified of the competition, even though I’m sure this isn’t the case.
Dave Jeffery
11 Nov 07 at 6:59 am
[...] http://www.ecmascript.org/ http://www.ecmascript.org/es4/spec/evolutionary-programming-tutorial.pdf Microsoft trying to derail ECMAScript 4? “ECMA-262 Edition 4 is the next-generation version of ECMAScript being developed currently by the [...]
42 tech items for Flex Developers to research, study and watch in 2008
21 Dec 07 at 8:45 am
[...] to be an interesting one to watch. There has been a lot of rumblings from a few of the big players. Microsoft doesn’t like it. Once again, Microsoft and Adobe will be at each others [...]
Another Reflection and Prediction posting - Happy 2008
4 Jan 08 at 1:09 pm
[...] http://www.ecmascript.org/ http://www.ecmascript.org/es4/spec/evolutionary-programming-tutorial.pdf Microsoft trying to derail ECMAScript 4? “ECMA-262 Edition 4 is the next-generation version of ECMAScript being developed currently by the [...]
42 tech items for Flex Developers to research, study and watch in 2008 « Alaguvel’s Weblog
4 Sep 08 at 2:28 am